Oct 19, 2026 City Council Workshop

[1) CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL]

[00:00:02]

NO MORE FUN AND GAMES. NO MORE FUN AND GAMES.

THAT'S SO FUNNY. GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO THE CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP THIS BEAUTIFUL.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 19TH, 2026. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

COUNCIL MEMBER. BARTON HERE. COUNCIL MEMBER. CRAMER HERE.

COUNCIL MEMBER. CROWELL HERE. COUNCILMEMBER SCHULTZ, VICE MAYOR.

BLANKENSHIP HERE. MAYOR HEITMANN HERE. THANK YOU.

AND IF YOU'LL STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

PLEASE JOIN ME. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

GOOD MORNING, MR. YOUNG. GOOD MORNING, MAYOR.

SETTING THE AGENDA. NO CHANGES, MA'AM. OKAY. COUNCIL.

[3) SET AGENDA (add or remove items)]

MADAM MAYOR, I MOVE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA AS PUBLISHED.

SUPPORT. I HAVE A MOTION BY VICE MAYOR AND A SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER SCHULTZ.

ALL IN FAVOR? SIGNED BY I OPPOSED. THANK YOU.

COUNCIL PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. PUBLIC COMMENT. IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK AT COUNCIL ON ANY OF THE ITEMS. THE REGISTRATION FORMS ARE IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM AND CAN BE FILLED OUT AND GIVEN TO THE CLERK.

NO PUBLIC COMMENT. OKAY, WE'LL GO TO ITEM FIVE A AND YOU'LL BE HANDLING THAT.

[5.A) Interview One Applicant for the Code Enforcement Bord Board; One Applicant for the Independent Ethics Commission, and One Applicant for the Board of Trustees of the Police Officers’ Retirement Trust Fund.]

JESSICA HERNANDEZ, DEPUTY CITY CLERK. TODAY WE HAVE THREE INTERVIEWS SCHEDULED, ONE FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD, ONE FOR THE ETHICS COMMISSION AND ONE FOR THE POLICE PENSION BOARD.

I'D LIKE TO BEGIN WITH THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD.

MIKE FAWCETT HAS SERVED FOR ONE FULL TERM AND HE HAS REAPPLIED.

AND RIGHT NOW, I'D LIKE TO INVITE HIM UP FOR AN INTERVIEW.

GOOD MORNING, SIR, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR WILLINGNESS TO CONTINUE SERVING.

THANK YOU. ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO LET COUNCIL KNOW OR GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS OR OPINIONS? I'M HERE TO INTERVIEW FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD.

THIS WOULD BE MY SECOND TERM. I'VE SERVED THREE YEARS ON THAT BOARD.

AND PRIOR TO THAT, ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF ON THE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD.

I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT IN NAPLES SINCE 1999. AND I'VE BEEN SERVING SINCE MY RETIREMENT ON VOLUNTEER WORK SINCE 2020.

THAT'S ABOUT IT. I WOULDN'T SAY YOU'VE RETIRED QUITE YET, BUT THANK YOU.

COUNCIL. ANY QUESTIONS? YES. MR.. CARL COUNCILMAN.

I WAS CHAIR OF. MIKE WAS THERE. HE WAS THERE FOR THE MEETINGS.

HE WAS THERE WITH GOOD INPUT, VERY COMPETENT, GOOD BACKGROUND.

I SEE, SEE, HE'S A PERFECT CANDIDATE FOR THE BOARD.

THANK YOU FOR THOSE COMMENTS. THANK YOU, MR. COUNCILMEMBER SCHULTZ.

THANK YOU. JUST ONE QUESTION. WE'VE BEEN HAVING ISSUES WITH ATTENDANCE AND JUST WONDERED, IS THE CALENDAR SOMETHING YOU CAN DEAL WITH? YOU. SO YOU'D HAVE TO ZOOM IN OR LIKE THAT YOU'D BE ABLE TO ATTEND THE MEETINGS. I HAVEN'T MISSED A MEETING IN THREE YEARS.

THE ANSWER IS YES. THANK YOU. YES. THANK YOU.

COUNCIL MEMBER BARTON. I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR FOR YOUR EFFORTS HERE.

AND FILLING THESE SPOTS ON OUR BOARDS IS NOT ALWAYS THE EASIEST THING TO DO.

SO IT'S GREATLY APPRECIATED FROM NOT ONLY FROM US, FROM A STANDPOINT OF HELPING US WITH THE GOVERNANCE OF OUR CITY, BUT ALSO THANK YOU FROM A RESIDENTS AS WELL. AGAIN, YOUR EFFORTS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

THANK YOU. YES, SIR. OKAY. WELL, THAT WAS EASY.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR WILLINGNESS TO CONTINUE TO SERVE.

THANK YOU. I NEED A MOTION. OR NOT. WEDNESDAY.

NEXT, I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE JESSICA DOUGLAS UP.

SHE HAS SERVED ON THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER COMMISSION FOR A PARTIAL TERM.

SHE HAS REAPPLIED. THANK YOU AND GOOD MORNING.

THERE YOU GO. I WATCHED THE MEETINGS. IT APPEARS THAT YOU ENJOY BEING ON THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

I DO. AS MUCH AS ONE CAN ENJOY ETHICS, I THINK IT IS.

IT'S BEEN IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE. I'VE REALLY ENJOYED MEETING A LOT OF PEOPLE AND BEING AN AMBASSADOR FOR THE COMMISSION.

[00:05:05]

COUNCIL QUESTIONS. JUST THE SAME ONE. THANK YOU FOR APPLYING.

MAKING MEETINGS IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE, NOT AN ISSUE FOR YOU.

NOT AN ISSUE. I'VE ATTENDED 12 OUT OF 14 IN PERSON, ONE ON ZOOM AND I WAS SICK FOR ONE.

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOU SIGNING UP AGAIN. THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS QUESTIONS? I'M GOING TO ECHO WHAT HE SAID. THANKS FOR BEING WILLING. IT'S IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO FILL THESE SOMETIMES AND WE ARE REALLY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR SERVICE.

NO. MUCH APPRECIATED. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S SUPPORT. AND THE LAST TIME THAT I WAS UP FOR THIS INTERVIEW, I WAS VERY SICK AND YOU GUYS WERE VERY KIND TO ME, SO IT WORKED OUT.

BUT I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

AND WE MAKE OUR APPOINTMENTS ON WEDNESDAY. SO OKAY.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OUR FINAL APPLICANT TODAY IS JEROME FONS.

HE IS CURRENTLY SERVING ON THE POLICE PENSION BOARD AND IS SEEKING REAPPOINTMENT.

AGAIN, WE HAVE REPEAT MEMBERS, AND THAT SHOWS THAT WE HAVE GREAT CITIZENS WILLING TO CONTINUE TO SERVE.

SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. COUNCIL QUESTIONS? YES, VICE MAYOR. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WILLING TO SERVE AGAIN.

THIS MUST BE YOUR THIRD OR FOURTH OR FIFTH, FOURTH TIME BECAUSE THERE ARE ONLY TWO YEAR TERMS. BUT THANK YOU. AND YOU HAVE EXTENSIVE EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE.

AND IT'S WE'RE GRATEFUL THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO SHARE IT WITH THE CITY.

COULD YOU SHARE A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE BOARD KIND OF SHIFTING INVESTMENT APPROACHES FROM NOT SO MUCH ACTIVE TO A LITTLE BIT MORE INDEX BASED AND KIND OF HOW THAT'S GOING? THAT'S A LONG STRUGGLE. IT'S BEEN YEAH, IT'LL BE MY, IT'S IN THE SIX YEARS I'VE BEEN THERE.

WHEN I STARTED, WE WERE FULLY ACTIVE. WE HAD MORE THAN 13 DIFFERENT MANAGERS.

WE WERE INVOLVED IN CERTAIN ASSET CLASSES THAT DIDN'T PAN OUT FOR US AND BEEN TRYING TO EXTRICATE OURSELVES FROM SOME OF THOSE.

THE PROBLEM IS PART OF IT IS JUST WE HAVE THIS INVESTMENT POLICY GUIDELINE AND WE HAVE TO KIND OF STICK TO THAT AND TO CHANGE THAT TAKES MOTIONS AND MOVEMENTS AND COMMENTS AND WHATNOT. AND SO IT'S SORT OF, I THINK, TIED OUR HANDS A LITTLE BIT FROM DOING WHAT I THINK IS RIGHT.

AND I AGREE WITH YOU. WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS MOVING MORE TOWARDS PASSIVE.

AND IT'S BEEN A BATTLE. YOU KNOW, JUST WE FIND MANAGERS THAT ARE UNDERPERFORMING.

AND GUESS WHAT. MOST OF THEM DO UNDERPERFORM. AND SO WE WIND UP, YOU KNOW, SHIFTING TO, YOU KNOW, LOW COST INDEX FUNDS WHEN WE CAN. AND IT'S JUST ONE BY ONE.

WE'RE SLOWLY TAKING THEM THERE. AND HOW'S THE FUND'S INVESTMENT PERFORMANCE DOING UNDER THE PASSIVE APPROACH VERSUS THE WELL, THEY THEY MEET THEIR BENCHMARKS. SO I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S AS GOOD AS WE AS YOU CAN HOPE.

YEAH. SAVE A LITTLE BIT IN FEES ALONG THE WAY TOO.

YEAH. LOTS OF FEES. THANKS. THANKS FOR HELPING LEAD THAT CHARGE.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU CRAMER. WELL, I JUST WANT TO VOUCH FOR JERRY HE'S.

AND JOHN KNOWS HE'S AND BYRNE KNOWS HE'S. WE HAVE A HANDFUL OF EXPERTS LIKE TOP IN THEIR FIELD IN THE COUNTRY.

AND HE'S ONE OF THEM. AND HE'S ABLE TO DUMB IT DOWN ENOUGH FOR THE LAY PEOPLE ON IT.

AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT. SO THANKS FOR WHAT YOU DO.

THANKS FOR WHAT YOU DO. MY PLEASURE, MY HONOR AND PLEASURE.

THANK YOU. TRULY. SCHULTZ THANK YOU FOR APPLYING AGAIN.

DO YOU KEEP TRACK OF YOUR STANDARD DEVIATION? WHAT? THAT'S ONE MEASURE OF RISK OF THE PORTFOLIO OR ASSET CLASSES.

YES, SIR. WELL THAT'S ONE MEASURE I THINK OUR INVESTMENT ADVISOR SCOTT ANY, WORKS WITH THIS SUBSIDIARY OF MORGAN STANLEY.

I MEAN, THEY COME IN AND THEY, THEY REVIEW THE PERFORMANCE OF ALL THE FUNDS.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE ALPHA, THE BETA, THE STANDARD DEVIATIONS, THE UPSIDE DOWNSIDE CAPTURES VARIOUS METRICS.

MOST OF WHICH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF WHICH YOU COULD CALL RISK SOME OF WHICH I DON'T REALLY THINK, I THINK OUR BIGGEST RISK IS THAT THE FUND UNDERPERFORMS AND THAT WE DON'T MEET OUR GOAL AND WE WIND UP HAVING A FUND THAT'S UNDERFUNDED.

AND THAT'S REALLY THAT'S THE BIGGEST RISK I THINK WE HAVE.

I DON'T WORRY ABOUT VOLATILITY STANDARD DEVIATION TOO MUCH BECAUSE WE HAVE WE SHOULD HAVE A LONG TERM HORIZON.

WE SHOULD HAVE A 30 YEAR 50 YEAR HORIZON. THIS IS A PENSION FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T SOME OF WHOM PARTICULARLY THE POLICE THE FIREMEN, THEY'RE QUITE YOUNG. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RETIRE AND TAKE THIS FUND FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. SO MY,

[00:10:01]

AND I DON'T REALLY I'M NOT GOING TO GET TOO CONCERNED ABOUT DAY TO DAY UPS AND DOWNS.

THANK YOU. YEAH. YEAH. I SIT IN THE MEETING ALL THE TIME AS CHAIR OF THE GENERAL, AND HIS CONTRIBUTION IS AMAZING. AND I JUST STRONGLY RECOMMEND OBVIOUSLY BRINGING HIM BACK.

SO. A LIFETIME APPOINTMENT? YES, A LIFETIME APPOINTMENT.

OH, NO. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A LIFETIME APPOINTMENT. MAYBE.

MAYBE THIS ONE. MAYBE ONE MORE. WE'LL SEE, WE'LL SEE.

NO ONE ELSE HAS STEPPED FORWARD, RIGHT? NO ONE ELSE TO.

WELL, WE'RE HAPPY THAT YOU HAVE STEPPED FORWARD BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT.

WE COULD HAVE JUST ANYONE STEP FORWARD. BUT YOU REALLY DO MAKE.

WELL, I HAVE SUPPORT OTHER PEOPLE, JOHN. OTHERS.

I MEAN, JOHN, THERE'S SOME REALLY GOOD PEOPLE ON THE BOARD.

SO I THINK WE'RE IN A GOOD POSITION TO GET US WHERE WE NEED TO GO.

GOOD. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR WILLINGNESS TO SERVE AGAIN.

ALL RIGHT. MY PLEASURE. OKAY. WE'LL MAKE THE APPOINTMENTS WEDNESDAY.

THAT CONCLUDES OUR INTERVIEWS FOR TODAY. AND JUST TO NOTE, WE HAVE JOHN LANGLEY INTERVIEWING ON WEDNESDAY FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD AS WELL.

OKAY. OH, I KNOW, MR. YOUNG, YOU DO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT THAT YOU MUST GET TO.

THAT'S SINCE THOSE MOVED ALONG REALLY QUICKLY.

I FIGURED I WOULD JUST TAKE A MOMENT. I HAVE TO GO TO THIRD AVENUE NORTH FOR A MEETING WITH THE COUNTY ON BEACH RENOURISHMENT.

BUT I WILL TURN IT OFF TO TURN IT OVER TO KATIE AND DOCTOR GEORGE FOR THIS ITEM.

SO THANK YOU, MA'AM. GREAT. THANK YOU. BEING IN TWO PLACES AT ONE TIME.

VERY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING, DOCTOR GEORGE.

[5.B) Presentation of the Surface Water Quality and Biological Analysis Report.]

SO WE HAVE OUR CONSULTANT READY TO MAKE A PRESENTATION, AND THEN WE WILL YIELD TO OUR CONSULTANT TO START AND MAKE THE PRESENTATION. THEN WE'LL BE READY FOR Q AND A'S.

THANK YOU KATIE. GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

GOOD MORNING. CAN YOU INTRODUCE OUR SPEAKER? SURE.

KATIE LARKIN AND NATURAL RESOURCES. SO IN JUST A QUICK BACKGROUND ON ON WHAT ALL WE COLLECT.

SO THE CITY'S BEEN MONITORING WATER QUALITY IN NAPLES BAY, MOORINGS BAY, LOWER HALDERMAN CREEK, ROCK CREEK AND SOME OF THE STORMWATER PONDS FOR NEARLY TWO TWO DECADES, ALONG WITH THE BIOLOGICAL MONITORING OF SEAGRASS AND FISHERIES.

AND EVERY FIVE YEARS, WE DO THIS UPDATE OF TRENDS AND AND STATUS BAY WIDE STATUS OF THE ESTUARINE DATA.

AND THIS DATA IS ALSO WHAT GETS TRANSMITTED TO THE STATE FOR THE IMPAIRED WATERS RULE.

AND IN 2025, THE CITY CONTRACTED TETRA TECH TO COMPLETE A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS OF THE AVAILABLE WATER QUALITY AND BIOLOGICAL DATA.

THIS IS FROM 2005 TO 2024. THE REPORT EVALUATES COMPLIANCE AND APPLICABLE STATE STANDARDS, SPATIAL AND TEMPORAL, TEMPORAL TRENDS, SEA GRASS AND FISHERIES CONDITIONS, AND THE INFLUENCE OF UPSTREAM FRESHWATER AND POLLUTANT LOADING TO DOWNSTREAM WATER RECEIVING WATER. SO WE NOW HAVE RENE CAMACHO WITH US FROM TETRA TECH TO PRESENT THE SUMMARY OF THE NUMEROUS, NUMEROUS DATA ANALYSIS EFFORTS. AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO RENEE.

GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME. GOOD MORNING, AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING US HERE AND GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT A SUMMARY OF THE SURFACE WATER QUALITY ANALYSIS AND BIOLOGICAL ANALYSIS THAT WE CONDUCTED FOR NAPLES BAY AND MARINA BAY.

MY NAME IS RENE CAMACHO. I'M WITH TETRA TECH.

MY BACKGROUND IS IN HYDRODYNAMICS AND WATER QUALITY MODELING.

I HAVE A PHD IN THE SUBJECT, AND I WAS THE PROJECT MANAGER FOR THIS PROJECT IN TETRA TECH.

SO THANK YOU, KATIE, FOR THAT INTRODUCTION. I THINK THAT SUMMARIZES WHAT ARE THE MAJOR OBJECTIVES OF THIS PROJECT.

WE HAD THE CITY COLLECTS MULTI-DECADE VARIETY OF WATER QUALITY SEAGRASS AND FISHERIES DATA THAT WE USE FOR THIS ANALYSIS. AND I THINK AN EASY WAY TO SEE THIS, THE OBJECTIVES OF THIS PROJECT AND THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ANALYZING IS WE ARE ASSESSING WHAT IS THE ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY OF THE SYSTEM.

[00:15:05]

THE BLOOD SAMPLE GIVES YOU A WIDE VARIETY OF OF INFORMATION.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING. BUT IN THE IN THIS WATER BODIES, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE LOOKING INCLUDE NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS, CHLOROPHYL, A DISSOLVED OXYGEN COPPER, TURBIDITY AND ENTEROCOCCI TO DETERMINE WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE OF THE OF THE WATER BODIES IN REGARDS WITH EXISTING STANDARDS AND CONDITIONS APPLICABLE STANDARDS.

THE STUDY AREA INCLUDES THE GORDON RIVER EXTENSION, GORDON RIVER MARINE SEGMENT, HALDIMAND CREEK, ROCK CREEK, NAPLES BAY, GOLDEN GATE CANAL AND MURRAY'S BAY.

YOU CAN SEE. I HOPE YOU CAN SEE THE THERE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SLIDE, THE WATER BODIES UNDER EVALUATION. SO THE CITY MAINTAINS THREE SAMPLING PROGRAMS, ONE FOR SURFACE WATER QUALITY, ONE FOR SEAGRASS AND ONE FOR FISH SAMPLING.

AND THIS SLIDE PRESENTS SOME OF THE LOCATIONS WHERE THIS INFORMATION IS COLLECTED.

THE SURFACE WATER QUALITY MONITORING PROGRAM OCCURS ACROSS THE EVALUATED WATER BODIES.

THE SEAGRASS MONITORING MOSTLY OCCUR IN NAPLES BAY, AND THE FISH SAMPLING OCCURS ALSO ACROSS NAPLES BAY AND MARINA BAY. THE NEXT SLIDE PRESENTS SOME OF THE COOL PICTURES OF CITY OF NAPLES STAFF COLLECTING THIS THIS INFORMATION. AND THE PROJECT HAD DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES THAT WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THROUGH THE PRESENTATION. BUT ONE OF THE MAIN ONES IS HOW THE WATER QUALITY OF WHAT THE WATER QUALITY DATA IS TELLING US WITH REGARDS TO STATE STANDARDS. A FEW CONCEPTS TO HAVE IN MIND FOR DURING THE PRESENTATION ARE MAINLY THREE TMDL IS A IS A MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF POLLUTANT THAT A WATER BODY CAN RECEIVE BEFORE HAVING DETRIMENTAL IMPACTS.

THE WHIPPET IS A WATER BODY IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.

EVERY SINGLE WATER BODY THAT WE ANALYZE HERE HAS AN IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.

AN INR IS A NECESSARY NUTRIENT REGION, WHICH IS A GEOGRAPHICAL AREA WHERE THE STATE HAS DEFINED NUTRIENT CRITERIA, APPLICABLE NUTRIENT CRITERIA. WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW THE EXISTING WATER QUALITY INFORMATION LOOKED IN TERMS OF STANDARDS, WE LOOK AT TWO THINGS. ONE, WHAT ARE THE EXISTING IMPAIRMENTS AND SECOND, WHAT ARE THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS? SO FOR EACH ONE OF THE WATER BODIES THERE ARE SOME THE STATE REPORTS.

WHAT ARE THE IMPAIRMENTS? IF THERE ARE IMPAIRMENTS IN THESE WATER BODIES.

AND THESE ARE LISTED HERE IN THIS TABLE. IN SOME CASES WE HAVE IMPAIRMENTS REPORTED FOR COPPER ENTEROCOCCI NUTRIENTS DEPENDING ON ON THE LOCATION OF THE SYSTEM. AND YOU CAN SEE THEM IN THERE.

AND THERE ARE SOME APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND APPLICABLE TARGETS FOR SOME OF THESE WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS.

SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINED BY THE TMDLS, LIKE THE EXISTING COPPER TMDL FOR HONEYMOON CREEK, ROCK CREEK AND NAPLES BAY.

AND SOME OTHERS ARE DEFINED BY THE ESTUARINE NUTRIENT REGIONS.

WE DEFINE WHAT ARE THE TARGET CONCENTRATIONS FOR FOR NUTRIENTS WHICH HELP TO CONTROL.

I THINK THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THOSE THOSE CRITERIA CONTROLS ON NUTRIENTS ARE DESIGNED TO AVOID THE EXPLOSION OF ALGAE BLOOMS IN SOME CASES. WE DID AN EVALUATION OF WHAT THE DATA WAS LOOKING IN TERMS OF EXCEEDANCES OR STANDARDS. SO THE REPORT INCLUDES SOME OF THESE TABLES.

I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAIL HERE, BUT WHAT WE DID WAS WE EVALUATED HOW MANY EXPERIENCES WITH REGARDS TO EXISTING STANDARDS OCCURRED DURING THE FULL PERIOD OF RECORD AND ALSO FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

AND THIS WOULD WOULD ALLOW US TO SEE IF THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES IN HOW THE SYSTEM IS BEHAVING IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WITH RESPECT TO THE PREVIOUS PERIOD OR THE FULL PERIOD OF RECORD.

SO FOR TOTAL NITROGEN, WE SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, SIMILAR CONDITIONS THAT EXCEEDANCES HAVE BEEN PRESENT IN THE PERIOD OF RECORD.

ALSO IN THE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE HAVEN'T SEEN A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN TERMS OF HOW THE TOTAL NITROGEN IS BEHAVING FOR TOTAL

[00:20:04]

THESE ARE MORE WHAT WE SAW IS THAT THEY LOOK MORE STATION DEPENDENT.

SO AND THEY ARE NOT, WE DIDN'T SEE A CONSISTENT OR PERSISTENT EXCEEDANCE OF WATER QUALITY STANDARDS ACROSS THE BAY.

SO WHAT DO I MEAN WITH THAT IS WHEN WE PUT THIS INFORMATION, ALL THE AVAILABLE WATER QUALITY IN, IN A TIME SERIES, WE, WE SEE THIS TYPE OF SCATTER PLOTS, WHICH BASICALLY TELL US THAT FOR EVERY STATION.

YEAH. THERE ARE SOME CASES WHERE WE ARE EXCEEDING THE, THE STATE.

BUT WE DON'T SEE. ONE STATION ALWAYS IS ATYPICAL TO SEE ONE STATION ALWAYS EXCEEDING THE STANDARD OR ALL STATIONS EXCEEDING THE STANDARD AT THE SAME TIME. SO THESE ARE CONDITIONS THAT OCCUR MORE AS A STATION BASED IN A STATION BASED AND CASE.

IN THESE FIGURES, WHAT WE ARE INCLUDING ALSO IS THE MAYOR STORM THAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.

AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IN SOME CASES WE SEE THAT SOME OF THE WATER QUALITY INCREASES, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR TOTAL PHOSPHORUS ARE PRECEDED BY BIG STORM EVENTS.

SO THIS INFORMATION, THIS CONTEXT CONTEXT INFORMATION IS, IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE SYSTEM BEHAVES AS A WHOLE.

FOR CHLOROPHYL A, WE DIDN'T SEE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE.

WE STILL SEE EXCEEDANCES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS COMPARED TO THE FULL PERIOD OF RECORD.

AND FOR COPPER, WHAT WE IDENTIFIED WAS A REDUCTION IN THE FREQUENCY OF EXCEEDANCES WITH RESPECT TO THE PERIOD OF RECORD, AND ALSO A TENDENCY TO REDUCE COPPER CONCENTRATIONS IN THE EVALUATED WATER BODIES.

DISSOLVED OXYGEN, SIMILAR CONDITIONS IN THE PERIOD OF RECORD AND THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

SO WE OVERALL SEE A STABLE SYSTEM WITHOUT CHANGES, SIGNIFICANT CHANGES OR SHIFTS IN WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS.

THERE ARE COCCI SIMILAR IN THE PERIOD OF RECORD AND THE FIVE LAST YEAR.

AS A SUMMARY, WE IDENTIFIED EXCEEDANCES OF WATER QUALITY WITH REGARDS TO TOTAL NITROGEN AND TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE PERIOD OF RECORD FOR MOST OF THESE WATER BODIES. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FIVE THE MOST RECENT FIVE YEARS, TOTAL NITROGEN EXCEEDANCES PERSIST IN SOME OF THESE WATER BODIES. T P PERSISTED AT THE GORDON RIVER EXTENSION AND MURRAY'S BAY, BUT WE DON'T SEE A EXCEEDANCES OCCURRING IN NAPLES BAY OR GORDON RIVER MARINE SECTION. THE INCIDENCES OCCUR MORE LIKE A STATION BASED, NOT SYSTEM WIDE. AND WE TYPICALLY ALSO FOUND HIGHER CONCENTRATIONS ORIGINATING IN FRESH WATER SOURCES, NOT SO MUCH IN THE MARINE ENVIRONMENT. CHLOROPHYL SIMILAR CONDITIONS IN THE IN THE PERIOD OF RECORD AND THE LAST FIVE YEARS AND COPPER HAS BEEN REDUCED IN TERMS OF EXPERIENCES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD THIS IS GOOD NEWS IN TERMS OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE WATER BODIES.

ENTEROCOCCI EXCEEDANCES ARE EXISTING. AND THEY STILL AND THEY ARE STILL OBSERVED AND THEY LIKELY REFLECT MULTIPLE SOURCES, INCLUDING WATERSHED RUNOFF, SEPTIC SYSTEM LEAKAGE, WILDLIFE.

PET WASTE AND OTHER LOCALIZED SOURCES THAT NEED TO BE EVALUATED IN MORE DETAIL WITH OTHER TOOLS.

ANOTHER OF THE OBJECTIVES OF THE STUDY WAS TO IDENTIFY IF THERE WERE STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT TRENDS IN IN THE AVAILABLE DATA SETS. SO FOR THIS, WHAT WE DID IS WE EVALUATED WITH USING STATISTICAL ANALYSIS.

IF THERE ARE DETECTABLE TRENDS IN THE WATER QUALITY DATASETS.

IN THIS TABLE THAT YOU SEE IN SLIDE 16, WE ARE SUMMARIZING THE TRENDS THAT WE SAW AT THE BASE OR THE WATER BODY BASE IN INDICATING WITH ARROWS. WHAT ARE THOSE TRENDS TELLING US? THE DIRECTION OF THE ARROW INDICATES IF THE TREND IS INCREASING OR DECREASING.

[00:25:03]

AND THE COLOR REFLECTS. IF IT'S A GOOD TREND OR IF IT'S IMPROVING TREND, IT'S A GREEN.

IF IT'S A TREND THAT MIGHT SUGGEST REDUCTIONS IN WATER QUALITY IS A IS IN RED.

WE SAW IN MOST CASES INCREASES INCREASING TRENDS OR DETECTABLE TRENDS IN TURBIDITY ACROSS THE, THE WATER SYSTEM, WHICH MIGHT BE RELATED TO WATERSHED RUNOFF.

AND SOME OF THE STORM EVENTS THAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS.

BUT WE ALSO SAW IN THIS THIS INCREASES IN TURBIDITY WERE SOMETIMES ACCOMPANIED BY A DECREASING TREND IN WATER CLARITY, WHICH IS REASONABLE, RIGHT, FOR AND THIS OCCURRED IN MOST, IN MOST WATER BODIES, INCREASING TRENDS IN, IN CHLOROPHYL AND OTHER PARAMETERS LIKE TOTAL NITROGEN WERE MORE LOCALIZED IN TERMS OF WATER BODIES.

AND WE SAW DECREASING TRENDS IN COPPER IN THE GORDON RIVER EXTENSION AND HALDIMAND CREEK, WHICH ARE GOOD NEWS FOR, FOR THE ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY AND RESPONSE OF THE SYSTEM.

WE INCLUDED IN THE SLIDES SOME OF THE INFORMATION RELATED TO TRENDS AT A STATION LEVEL.

SO WHEN WE LOOK MORE GRANULARLY THE DATA IN AND IDENTIFY IF THERE ARE TRENDS IN IN SPECIFIC STATIONS AND WHAT YOU WHAT WE SEE IS WHAT WE HAVE PRESENTED IN THESE SLIDES, WHICH IS INCREASING TRENDS IN SOME STATIONS, DECREASING TRENDS IN OTHER STATIONS, BUT WE DON'T SEE ALL STATIONS PRESENTING THE SAME TRENDS.

SO THESE ARE MORE LOCALIZED AND NOT SYSTEM WIDE IN INCREASES OR DECREASES.

OVERALL. WE HAVE FIGURES FOR CHLOROPHYL A FOR COPPER.

COPPER IS THE ONLY WATER QUALITY PARAMETER THAT WE ONLY SAW STABLE OR DECREASING TRENDS.

FOR THE OTHER PARAMETERS WE TYPICALLY SAW MAYBE DECREASING TRENDS, INCREASING TRENDS AT SPECIFIC LOCATIONS.

BUT COPPER STAYS STABLE OR DECREASING TREND IN SOME AREAS.

THE OTHER OBJECTIVE OF THIS STUDY WAS TO IDENTIFY HOW BIOLOGICAL COMMUNITIES RESPONDED.

AND IF THERE WERE STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT TRENDS AND CORRELATIONS WITH WATER QUALITY.

FOR THIS PURPOSE, WE EVALUATED THE AVAILABLE SEAGRASS AND ALSO THE FISHERY DATA.

SO THE CITY MAINTAINS A GOOD EFFORT IN TERMS OF SECRET SAMPLING AND FISH SAMPLING.

IN THIS SLIDE SLIDE, WE PRESENT ON THE RIGHT SIDE THE LOCATIONS WHERE THESE SAMPLINGS OCCUR IN NAPLES BAY.

SO TYPICALLY THE SAMPLING OCCURS AT FIXED TRANSECTS.

AND THE FIELD CREW PUTS SOME QUADRANTS LOCATED EVERY TEN METERS.

AND YOU CAN SEE THE QUADRANTS ON THE LOWER LEFT.

ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN. AND FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE QUADRANTS THEY MONITOR THINGS LIKE WHAT ARE THE SEAGRASS SPECIES PRESENT? WHAT IS THE PERCENT COVERAGE OF THE SEAGRASS IN THESE QUADRANTS AND SHOOT DENSITY, WHICH IS BASICALLY A MEASURE OF SHOOTS PER SQUARE METER.

THE THE SAMPLING OCCURS UP TO THE DEEPEST POINT WHERE SEAGRASS IS PRESENT, AND THAT IS CALLED A MAXIMUM COLONIZED DEPTH FOR FISH SAMPLING. THE SAMPLING OCCURS ACROSS NAPLES BAY AND MARINA BAY AT SEVERAL LOCATIONS. THEY OCCUR USING STANDARDIZED AUTOTROL.

THE TYPICAL SAMPLING OCCURS AT A DISTANCE WITHIN A DISTANCE OF 0.1 NAUTICAL MILES.

AND THE THE CATCH IS IS SORTED FOR FISH SPECIES AND ONLY FISH SPECIES ARE RETAINED. ANY OTHER NON FISH SPECIES ARE REMOVED FROM THE ANALYSIS.

BUT THESE. THESE SAMPLES ARE EVALUATED FOR FISH ABUNDANCE SPECIES COMPOSITION DISTRIBUTION RICHNESS AND EVENNESS.

AND WHAT YOU SEE ON THIS FIGURE IS SOME OF THE SPECIES THAT ARE CAPTURED IN THE PROCESS.

[00:30:13]

THE CONDITIONS WERE MOSTLY DESCRIBED AS VARIABLE AND PATCHY.

WE SAW LOW COVERAGES, TYPICALLY BETWEEN 5 AND 25% OF COVERAGE.

IF WE WE ALSO DETECTED SOME COVERAGES THAT WERE ABOVE 25%, BUT THEY WERE NOT PERSISTENT IN TIME.

SO THOSE COVERAGES REDUCED. AND THIS BASICALLY REFLECTS A VERY DYNAMIC ECOSYSTEM THAT IS IMPACTED BY LIGHT CONDITIONS AND NUTRIENT SUBSTRATE AVAILABILITY.

AND SO WE DON'T SEE A SYSTEM WIDE CONDITION OF INCREASING OR DECREASING COVERAGE.

THESE CONDITIONS WERE MOSTLY SITE SPECIFIC. FOR FISH COMMUNITIES.

WHAT WE EVALUATED WERE THINGS LIKE COMMUNITY STRUCTURE, FISH ABUNDANCE, SEASONAL RESPONSE, DIVERSITY TRENDS, WHAT ARE THE DOMINANT SPECIES.

AND SOME OF THE SPECIES THAT ARE COLLECTED IN THESE SAMPLES ARE PRESENTED HERE.

BUT WE, WE TYPICALLY SAW THE NAPLES BAY HAD A MORE VARIABLE AND HETEROGENEOUS FISH SPECIES COMPARED TO MARINES. BAY MARINES BAY WERE MORE STABLE AND CLUSTERED.

NAPLES BAY HAD IN GENERAL, HIGHER MEDIAN ABUNDANCE WITH GREATER VARIABILITY, WHEREAS GREEN BAY SHOWED A LITTLE BIT LOWER ABUNDANCE WITH NARROWER SEASONAL VARIABILITY.

WHAT THIS SOME OF THE EXPLANATIONS FOR THIS IS NAPLES BAY IS, HAS A MORE HYDROLOGIC CONNECTIVITY TO FRESHWATER ECOSYSTEMS. AND THE COMBINATION OF FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER ENVIRONMENTS CAN PROVIDE A MORE VARIETY OF HABITATS FOR FISH. AND THAT'S SOME OF THE REASONS WE TEND TO SEE A WIDER VARIETY OF SPECIES IN NAPLES BAY COMPARED TO MARINA BAY.

MARINA BAY IS MORE MOSTLY A MARINE ENVIRONMENT, SO WE SEE MORE COHESIVE AND CONSISTENT NUMBER OF SPECIES IN THE IN THE SYSTEM. SOME OF THE TYPICAL SPECIES THAT WE FOUND HERE INCLUDE MOJARRAS SAND, SEA TROUT HARDHEAD, CATFISH, AND PINFISH.

SO THOSE ARE THE TYPICAL FISH THAT WE, WE SEE.

AND AND ONE OF THE OTHER OBJECTIVES OF THIS PROJECT WAS HOW TO IDENTIFY HOW WATER QUALITY FROM UPSTREAM CONDITIONS AFFECTED DOWNSTREAM CONDITIONS.

AND THIS IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WATERSHED IS IMPACTING THE MARINE ENVIRONMENT.

FOR THIS PURPOSE, WE CONDUCTED SOME STATISTICAL ANALYSIS TO IDENTIFY GRADIENT VARIABILITY.

AND WHAT WE TYPICALLY FOUND IN NAPLES BAY IS THAT HIGHER CONCENTRATIONS TYPICALLY ORIGINATED IN FRESHWATER ECOSYSTEMS AND MOVED TO THE MARINE ENVIRONMENT, WHERE THOSE SIGNALS WERE REDUCED IN MAGNITUDE DUE TO TIDAL MIXING AND INTERACTION WITH SEA WATER. BUT SOME OF THOSE SIGNALS OR SOME OF THOSE HIGH CONCENTRATIONS PERSISTED THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM IN MARINES BAY.

WE DIDN'T, WE, WE DIDN'T FIND THAT THOSE TYPE OF LONGITUDINAL GRADIENTS, MAINLY BECAUSE IN MARINES BAY, WE DON'T HAVE THAT CLEAR WATER. FRESHWATER SALTWATER CONNECTIVITY IS MORE A MARINE ENVIRONMENT.

SO WE DIDN'T SEE THOSE THOSE TYPE OF GRADIENTS.

AND WHEN WE ARE LOOKING, FOR EXAMPLE, IN NAPLES BAY, WHEN WE GO UPSTREAM TO THE WATERSHED, WE START TO SEE THAT THESE PULSES OR THESE HIGH CONCENTRATIONS ORIGINATE IN AREAS WHERE THAT DRAIN SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS OF THE WATERSHED.

ONE OF THOSE IS THE GOLDEN GATE CANAL. IN THIS SLIDE.

SLIDE 26. WHAT WE SEE HERE IS THE THE VARIABILITY IN FLOW CONDITIONS.

[00:35:07]

AND, AND IT DEPENDS ON RAINFALL CONDITIONS FROM THE WATERSHED.

I THINK THE MAIN POINT FROM THIS SLIDE IS THAT THERE IS A LARGE VARIETY IN CONTRIBUTIONS IN FLOW CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE GOLDEN GATE CANAL, WHICH DEPENDS ON THE YEAR, IF IT'S A RAINY YEAR OR, OR A DRY YEAR.

WHEN WE LOOK AT ASSOCIATIONS WE FOUND CLOSER ASSOCIATIONS BETWEEN THE GOLDEN GATE WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS AND WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS IN THE GORDON RIVER AND NAPLES BAY.

SO WHAT THIS IS TELLING US IS THAT WATER QUALITY RESPONSES IN LOWER AREAS OF THE SYSTEM IN NAPLES BAY ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE GOLDEN GATE CANAL WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS. AND THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ARE THE MAIN SOURCES AND ALSO GUIDE AND SUPPORT FUTURE MANAGEMENT ACTIONS.

WE PROVIDED IN THE REPORT ESTIMATES OF ANNUAL LOADING FOR TOTAL NITROGEN PHOSPHORUS SUSPENDED LOADING AND COPPER.

AND THESE THESE ESTIMATES CAN BE MORE MONITORED AND TRACKED WITH FURTHER MONITORING TO DETERMINE IF THERE ARE SOME CHANGES IN OR SHIFTS IN TRENDS OR MAGNITUDES OF THESE LOADINGS.

SIR, IF I MIGHT. BEFORE YOU MOVE TO SUMMARY, CAN YOU GO BACK TO SLIDE 27, PLEASE? YES. 27. THANK YOU. SO I DID WANT TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES OF TIME HERE TO PROVIDE KIND OF OVERALL WHAT ALL THIS MEANS, ESPECIALLY MOVING FORWARD WHERE WE NEED TO INVEST OUR RESOURCES IN TERMS OF MONITORING.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF, ESPECIALLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE CHART BAR CHART, JUST FROM A WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT, IT'S APPROXIMATE, BUT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S DISCUSSION TELLS YOU HOW LARGE AREAS DOWNSTREAM CONTRIBUTING TO THE CITY OF NAPLES WATERSHED.

WHAT I MEAN WITH THAT IS, AS YOU REMEMBER, YOU HAVE PROVED VERY RECENTLY A UTILITY FOR THE CITY OF NAPLES BEING DEVELOPED, LOOKING INTO QUANTITY IN TERMS OF DIRECT INDIRECT CONTRIBUTIONS OF THE STORMWATER TO OUR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM.

SO ONE TAKEAWAY HERE FOR OUR COUNCIL IS THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT MAPS FROM A WATER QUALITY AND WATER QUANTITY MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT. AND THIS COUNCIL HAS DIRECTED US TO LOOK AT BOTH MOVING FORWARD.

SO THIS IS THE QUALITY PIECE THAT TAKES A FAIRLY LARGE AREA COMING FROM BIG CYPRESS BASIN BOARD JURISDICTION, AS WELL AS COLLIER COUNTY STORMWATER MANAGEMENT JURISDICTION.

TO OUR. WATERSHED BASIN TO OUR MOSTLY GORDON RIVER.

DISCHARGING TO OUR NAPLES BAY, ROCK CREEK, HELDERMAN CREEK, AMONG OTHERS.

SO IF WE MOVE TO. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

SORRY. SO ON THE NEXT SLIDE, WHAT I WANT TO PUT EMPHASIS HERE IS THAT MOVING FORWARD, OUR FOCUS IS GOING TO CHANGE.

AND YOU'LL SEE IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE WILL FOCUS ON MASS LOADING NOT JUST CONCENTRATIONS.

CONCENTRATIONS LET'S SAY MILLIGRAM PER LITER OR PARTS PER MILLION OR PARTS PER BILLION.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST? THE RHETORIC AND THE DIALOG AND EVEN ACADEMIC DISCUSSION HAS BEEN AROUND.

WELL, IF MY CONCENTRATIONS ARE LESS THAN YOU'RE RECEIVING WATER, I'M GOOD.

NO WE'RE NOT. BECAUSE OF THE MASS LOADING. FOR INSTANCE, I'M LOOKING AT TOTAL NITROGEN.

[00:40:08]

THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT 3.6 MILLION POUNDS OF NITROGEN COMING INTO OUR WATERSHED.

SO THIS IS REAL NUMBERS AS GOOD AS WE CAN GET TO.

THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT 110,000 POUNDS OF PHOSPHORUS COMING IN LAST TEN YEARS.

SO THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT LAST TEN YEARS, THAT'S HOW MUCH POUNDS OF MASS COMING INTO OUR SYSTEM.

AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT SUSPENDED SOLIDS, 1.7 MILLION POUNDS A YEAR, THAT'S 17 MILLION POUNDS OF STUFF IN THE FORM OF SUSPENDED SOLIDS COMING INTO OUR NAPLES BAY, GORDON RIVER AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

THAT IS, AGAIN, 17, APPROXIMATELY MILLION POUNDS LAST TEN YEARS.

THAT MEANS. FOLLOWING NEXT TEN YEARS, WE'LL RECEIVE AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE.

YOU SEE HOW THE MASS LOADING PUTS PERSPECTIVE ON CONCENTRATIONS.

WE CAN EASILY GET LOST IN CONCENTRATIONS. TRY TO MANAGE CONCENTRATIONS.

MILLIGRAM PER LITER. PARTS PER MILLION. BUT WHEN YOU PUT PERSPECTIVE ON HOW MUCH MASS COMING INTO OUR SYSTEM, FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE IS TREMENDOUS. AND THEN, OF COURSE, COPPER, WE'RE LOOKING AT COPPER BEING CLOSE TO 500 POUNDS PER YEAR, BUT LESS TEN YEARS. WE GOT 4,600 POUNDS OF COPPER, JUST LESS THAN YEARS. WE'RE NOT GOING BACK FURTHER JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF DIALOG AND DISCUSSION WE'RE HAVING NEXT TEN YEARS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER 5,000 POUNDS OF COPPER COMING AT US.

THAT'S ABOUT 10,000 POUNDS OF COPPER. YES, SIR.

WHERE'S THE COPPER COMING FROM? IT'S COMING FROM STORMWATER DISCHARGE.

HEAVY METALS LIKE COPPER BEING UTILIZED IN THE FORM OF A WATER.

INVASIVE SPECIES MANAGEMENT LIKE COPPER SULFATE.

AND SO THOSE ARE THE SOURCES COMING FROM RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, AGRICULTURAL.

ALL OF THE LAND USES WILL SOMEHOW, SOMEWHERE WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THOSE HEAVY METALS CONCENTRATIONS.

SAME WITH WHICH WE HAVE NOT MONITORED. BUT MOVING FORWARD, WE MIGHT LIKE TX BENZENE, TOLUENE, XYLENE WHICH IS PETROLEUM PRODUCTS THAT WE DEAL WITH.

AND, AND THEN YOU GOT PAH AND THEN YOU GOT THE VOLATILE ORGANIC CARBONS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

SO THERE IS SO MUCH HERE THAT MOVING FORWARD, WE WILL BE FOCUSED ON AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING TO YOU MASS LOADING WHAT THAT MEANS FOR FUTURE MASS LOADING FORECASTS, WHAT THAT MEANS, AND THEN DO OUR CONDITION ANALYSIS.

SO YOU'LL SEE UNDER OUR CONSULTANTS RECOMMENDATIONS, ONE OF THE THINGS BETWEEN STAFF AND THE CONSULTANT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO DOING MASS LOADING ANALYSIS THAT WE'RE DOING VERY PRELIMINARY HERE THAT WE DID FOR GOLDEN GATE, BUT WE'LL DO IT FOR ROCK CREEK AND HALDIMAND CREEK AND OTHER POINT SOURCES AS WELL. SO BEFORE WE MOVE TO SUMMARY, I DID WANT TO PUT PERSPECTIVE ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MCLS AND MASS LOADING.

AND OUR FOCUS OUGHT TO BE BOTH AND PARALLEL. AND WE NEED TO ALSO BE ABLE TO GET OUR HANDS AROUND HOW WE'RE GOING TO MANAGE THAT MASS COMING AT US IN TERMS OF OUR TREATMENT SYSTEM THAT WE'RE BUILDING AS UTILITY.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS WITHIN OUR UTILITY, WHAT WE CAN DISCHARGE TO OUR SYSTEM.

BUT ALSO THIS GIVES YOU PERSPECTIVE THAT THERE IS A LOT COMING OUT OF OUR CONTROL THAT WE NEED TO BE READY FOR.

PLAN FOR AND MANAGE. THANK YOU. YES. THANK YOU.

BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK THROUGH THIS, THIS SOMETHING ELSE STRUCK ME SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT ALSO IT'S LIKE. TO DUMB IT DOWN FOR ME IN MY LAWN.

IF THE GUY SAID, IF I SAY, HEY, I GOT A LOT OF WEEDS IN MY YARD.

AND HE GOES, WELL, YOU ONLY, YOU ONLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF, OF TORPEDO GRASS AND THEN YOU GOT SOME DANDELIONS AND THEN YOU'VE GOT SOME. BUT WHEN YOU

[00:45:01]

IT'S ALL WEEDS. AND SO IT'S NOT JUST TO ME. YEAH.

LOOKING AT THE MASS, BUT LOOK AT THE AGGREGATE OF THE MASSES.

AND IT LOOKS KIND OF OVERWHELMING WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY. AND SO MY QUESTION WAS, AND I GUESS WE'LL HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET TO THIS.

I ONLY HAD A QUESTION. WHAT IS THERE A WAY TO SCRUB IT ALL? IS CAN SOMEBODY CAN WE IS THERE IS IT THE TECHNOLOGY EXISTS.

AND I WAS THINKING YOU COULD CREATE SOME, YOU KNOW, BUILD TURBINES AND HAVE HYDROELECTRIC SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH SOME SORT OF SPILLWAY IN THIS SYSTEM. CAN WE SCRUB IT? CAN WE CLEAN IT ENOUGH THAT EXIST IN THE WORLD? IS THERE IS THERE A WAY OF DOING THIS? AND WHEN WE WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE SUMMARY AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND THOSE ARE RIGHT ONES AND OUR CONSULTANT MAY HAVE SOME ANSWERS.

WELL, BECAUSE WHEN I LOOKED AT THE RECOMMENDATIONS, IT WILL SHARE WITH YOU, OKAY, WHAT, WHAT WE CAN DO WITHIN OUR CONTROL, WHAT WE CANNOT DO, BUT WE CAN INFLUENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OPTIONS, NATURE, NATURE BASED AND TECHNOLOGY OPTIONS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

BUT THERE ARE, THERE ARE WAYS. I'M SORRY. OKAY.

I'M SORRY. I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. BECAUSE WHEN I SAW THE OPTIONS, I DID SEE NATURE BASED STUFF AND TYPICAL THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO THAT DON'T SEEM TO IMPACT IT MUCH OVER TIME. THAT'S ALL I'M.

THAT'S MY THOUGHT. I COULD BE WRONG, BUT MAYBE IT DOES IMPACT IT A LOT.

BUT ANALYZING THE WAY YOU'RE ASKING US TO, IT SEEMS NOT TO, NOT TO HAVE.

I'M GUESSING IT WOULD BE MUCH WORSE IF WE DIDN'T DO THE THINGS WE DID. BUT I'M HOPING TO HEAR OF SOME SYSTEM THAT DOES THIS ON A ON SCALE.

SIR. UNDERSTOOD. AND I THINK THAT WHAT I'M WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU, I THINK THAT THE OVERALL SEDIMENT MOVING INTO THIS SECOND PART OF THE 21ST CENTURY IS THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE DIALOG ON CONCENTRATIONS AND MASS LOADING BEING SECONDARY.

BUT WHEN YOU BRING THE MASS LOADING INTO THE PICTURE, THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO GET THIS MASS LOADING OUT OF OUR SYSTEM AS IT COMES? AND ALSO WE HAVE SOME RECOVERY AND WE HAVE TO DO CLEAN UP COMING FROM PAST MASS LOADING STAYS IN ENVIRONMENT.

IT DOESN'T DISAPPEAR. THESE ARE THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ACCUMULATES IN OUR BIOLOGICAL BIOLOGICAL SYSTEM SEDIMENTS, WATER COLUMN. SO YES, WE HAVE TO THINK MUCH MORE INNOVATIVELY, AGGRESSIVELY HOW WE CAN RECOVER FROM PESTS, BUT ALSO MOVING FORWARD, HOW WE CAN CATCH UP AND ACTUALLY START CLEANING UP OUR SYSTEM, NOT ONLY WHAT'S COMING IN, BUT WHAT WE HAVE. AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EXAMPLES WORLDWIDE THAT LARGER BASE THAN, FRANKLY, OUR NAPLES BAY HAD MULTIPLE TECHNOLOGY AND NATURE BASED SOLUTIONS, APPLIED DREDGING, DEWATERING, DECONTAMINATION, SCRUBBING DEWATERING.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OPTIONS OUT THERE. WE CAN AGGRESSIVELY SEEK AND SEE HOW FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE THEY ARE WITH PARTNERSHIP WITH ALL THE STATE, REGIONAL, LOCAL AGENCIES. SO MORE TO FOLLOW. SO THANK YOU.

OKAY. AS A AS A SUMMARY, WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS A SYSTEM THAT IS CHARACTERIZED BY STABLE WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS.

SOME OF THE CONDITIONS HAVE REMAINED SIMILAR IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS COMPARED TO THE PERIOD OF RECORD.

THIS IS ESPECIALLY THE CASE FOR NUTRIENTS AND CHLOROPHYL.

FOR COPPER, WE SEE REDUCTIONS IN COPPER CONCENTRATIONS IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS COMPARED TO THE PERIOD OF RECORD, WHICH IS GOOD NEWS. THESE DETECTABLE TRENDS ARE SPECIFICALLY LOCATED IN ADAM AND CREEK GORDON RIVER EXTENSION AND ALSO GORDON RIVER, WHICH HAS BEEN LISTED FOR AS IMPAIRED FOR COPPER.

AGAIN, ASSOCIATIONS THAT WE, WE CAN. THESE ARE THE TAKE HOME MESSAGES.

THERE ARE CLEAR ASSOCIATIONS BETWEEN UPSTREAM WATER WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS AND DOWNSTREAM WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS, WHICH MEANS WE ARE SEEING THE SYSTEM RESPONDING IN DOWNSTREAM AREAS TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WATERSHED.

WHAT ARE WHAT WE ARE DOING IN THE IN THE WATERSHED? WHEN WE IDENTIFY TRENDS, THESE ARE MOST, IN MOST CASES, STATION SPECIFIC.

WE DIDN'T DETECT SYSTEM WIDE TRENDS IN THE DATA FOR SEAGRASS.

WE DON'T SEE ANY MAJOR DETECTABLE TRENDS IN IN COVERAGE.

WE DIDN'T SEE ANY EXPANSION OR REDUCTION IN IN COVERAGE.

THE SYSTEM IS MOSTLY DESCRIBED AS PATCHY AND DYNAMIC.

[00:50:04]

BUT IN MOST CASES, THE FISH THE MAYOR FISH SPECIES PRESENT ARE, ARE SIMILAR.

SOME OF THE MANAGEMENT RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THE, IN THE REPORT, THE FIRST ONE IS TO MAINTAIN THE LONG TERM MONITORING. THESE PROGRAMS ARE IMPORTANT TO ALLOW US TO IDENTIFY WHAT OUR EXISTING CONDITIONS, HOW THE SYSTEM IS CHANGING IN TIME IN RESPONSE TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WATERSHED.

AND THIS DATA IS IMPORTANT ALSO TO EVALUATE HOW EFFECTIVE OUR MANAGEMENT PROGRAMS PUTTING INTO PRACTICE IN THE WATERSHED. AND THIS WILL ALLOW US ALSO TO IDENTIFY ANY POTENTIAL DETRIMENTAL CHANGES IN WATER QUALITY, IDENTIFY EMERGING CONCERNS. ONE ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION WE HAVE IS TO, AS YOU HEARD BEFORE ADD MORE FLOW CONDITIONS, FLOW ESTIMATES AND MONITORING TO DETERMINE WHAT ARE THE MASS LOADINGS COMING INTO THE SYSTEM. WE HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ARE THE CONCENTRATIONS IN UPSTREAM AREAS, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE FLOWS AND CONCENTRATIONS TO IDENTIFY HOW MUCH NUTRIENTS AND HOW MUCH LOADINGS ARE COMING INTO THE SYSTEM.

AND WHAT IS THE ASSIMILATIVE CAPACITY OF THESE SYSTEMS. SO INCORPORATING FLOW MEASUREMENTS IS GOING TO DEFINITELY IMPROVE HOW WE ASSESS WATER QUALITY CONDITIONS IN THE SYSTEM, AND THIS WILL ALLOW US TO GO BACK IN TIME AND DETERMINE WHAT WHAT WERE POSSIBLY THE LOADINGS FROM PREVIOUS YEARS, IF WE HAVE SOME ESTIMATES OF FLOW CONDITIONS.

WE ALSO RECOMMEND AS POSSIBLE TO, TO IDENTIFY OPPORTUNITIES FOR REDUCING WATERSHED POLLUTANTS.

SO KEEPING THE POLLUTANTS AT THE SITE, REDUCE MOBILIZATION OF NUTRIENTS, REDUCE MOBILIZATION OF POLLUTANTS FROM WATERSHED TO RECEIVING WATER BODIES.

FOR THIS, WE RECOMMEND THE USE OF ADVANCED MODELING TOOLS.

WE HAVE OTHER TOOLS THAT CAN HELP IDENTIFY THE SCREENING OPPORTUNITIES FOR, FOR IMPROVEMENTS.

AND ALSO IDENTIFY WHAT COULD BE THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF SOME ACTIONS IN THE WATERSHED IN THE RECEIVING WATER BODY.

THERE ARE SOME HYDRODYNAMIC AND WATER QUALITY MODELS THAT CAN BE USED FOR THAT. WE RECOMMEND THE CITY TO TO CONSIDER THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THESE OF THESE TOOLS.

AND THIS WOULD ALLOW TO IDENTIFY SOME OPPORTUNITIES LIKE PRIORITIZING AND EVALUATING.

WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF CHANGES IN RETROFITTING STORMWATER TREATMENT PLANTS, MAKING CANAL IMPROVEMENTS, DOING CATCHMENT MAINTENANCE AND SITE SPECIFIC POLLUTANT CONTROLS.

THE IMPLEMENTATION OF BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES CAN ALSO BE EXPLORED AND IDENTIFIED IN IN WITH THE USE OF THESE MODELS.

AND ADDRESS BOTH POINT AND NON-POINT SOURCE IN PRIORITY DRAINAGE AREAS.

AN ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION IS TO EVALUATE STORMWATER POND MANAGEMENT AND FIND OPPORTUNITIES IF POSSIBLE SUCH AS DREDGING, AND ALSO KEEP INVESTING AND IMPLEMENTING NATURE LIKE RESTORATION OPPORTUNITIES SUCH AS IMPLEMENTING LIVING SHORELINES, MANGROVE PLANTING, OYSTER REEFS, SEAGRASS SUPPORT ALL THESE. ALL THESE ACTIONS CAN HELP TO PROVIDE MORE STABLE HABITATS THAT CAN SUPPORT SEAGRASS GROWTH AND CAN HELP IN THE ECOLOGICAL FUNCTIONING OF THESE SYSTEMS. SO WITH THAT I'M WELCOMING YOU TO PROVIDE QUESTIONS AND I HOPE THIS WAS NOT TOO OVERWHELMING IN TERMS OF TECHNICAL DETAILS. QUESTIONS. YES, CARL. YES.

[00:55:07]

AND IT'S REALLY ABOUT FINDING THE SOURCE AND MITIGATION.

FINDING THE SOURCE MITIGATION. AND THE DAILY TESTING HAS BECOME MEANINGLESS TO ME BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, AT OR ABOVE. YEAH. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION THAT MATTERS.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S MORE INTERESTING, THE ACCUMULATION OF TIME OF THESE TOXINS, BECAUSE DAILY TESTING IS LESS MEANINGFUL TO ME THAN THAT.

AND TO KNOW WHAT, AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT KIND OF DETAILED TESTING YOU COULD DO FOR ACCUMULATION.

BUT THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO COMPARE WHAT IT WAS IN 1990 TO IF WE HAVE THAT DATA AND TO SHOW THAT, THAT I KNOW THE TREND HAS BEEN NOT GOOD, BUT TO ACTUALLY SHOW THAT THOSE TYPE OF NUMBERS WOULD BE MORE INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE DAILY TESTING WITH DILUTED WATER COMING, THAT'S NOT GOING TO IT'S GOING TO VARY FROM DAY TO DAY. AND SO IT'S, IT'S LESS MEANINGFUL TO ME.

ARE WE SAMPLING ENOUGH? DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE A LOT OF SAMPLING OR WHAT? HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? ARE WE DOING DIFFERENT THINGS? THE MONITORING PROGRAM IS ROBUST. THERE ARE, THERE IS DEFINITELY A DENSE NETWORK OF MONITORING STATIONS.

I THINK AS A SCIENTIST THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF DATA THAT IS ENOUGH.

RIGHT. SO WE WILL TRY TO GET AS MUCH DATA AS POSSIBLE.

BUT RESOURCES ARE LIMITED. SO IF WE WERE, IF WE HAD TO PRIORITIZE IN TERMS OF MONITORING AND YOU SAY WE HAVE, WE WANT TO DO MORE MONITORING TO EVALUATE ACCUMULATION, WE WOULD NEED TO HAVE SAMPLING FROM SEDIMENTS. SO. INCREASING OR INCORPORATING SOME SAMPLING OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE BOTTOM SEDIMENTS THAT COULD BE THAT COULD PROVIDE US THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO MAKE THIS MASS BALANCED AND SAY, THIS MUCH IS COMING IN, THIS MUCH IS COMING OUT.

WE ARE ACCUMULATING X AMOUNT OF POLLUTANTS IN THE SYSTEM.

SO FROM FROM THE SURFACE WATER, I WOULD SAY THE NETWORK IS IS GOOD.

THERE IS ALWAYS OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE MORE DENSE AND MORE CONTINUOUS DATA SETS.

THEY ARE VERY COSTLY, BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS OPPORTUNITIES FOR THAT.

BUT IN TERMS OF NEEDED NEEDS RIGHT NOW, I WOULD SAY SAMPLING SEDIMENT CORES TO IDENTIFY IF THESE CHEMICALS ARE STAYING IN THE IN THE SYSTEM WOULD BE WOULD BE IMPORTANT.

DO WE KNOW WHAT'S ON THE BOTTOM OF NAPLES BAY? HAS IT BEEN LIKE A DRONE? I MEAN, THERE ARE CARS ON THERE.

WHAT'S WHAT COULD BE DOWN THERE. I MEAN, OTHER THAN OTHER.

OTHER THINGS COULD BE. DO WE KNOW WHAT'S DOWN THERE? I MEAN, HAS THERE BEEN ANYTHING DONE OR. SO ARE YOU LIKE MORE OF HABITAT OR.

NO, I MEAN, MORE FROM HURRICANE. OH, IF THERE'S ANY DEBRIS, YOU KNOW, OR THEIR GOLF CARTS AND CARS OR WHAT'S DOWN THERE, SUNKEN BOATS. I MEAN, WHAT HAVE WE EVER DID A A DRONE SCAN, A SUBMARINE SCAN.

I REMEMBER THEY DID IT UP THE CANAL WHEN THEY WERE THEY WERE HAD THIS THIS LITTLE SUBMARINE COME BY MY HOUSE.

BUT I WAS WONDERING IF WE EVER DID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

DO WE KNOW ARE THERE CONTAMINANTS DOWN THERE THAT ARE CAN BE REMOVED LIKE, LIKE ESPECIALLY CARS THAT HAVE, COULD HAVE SEALED, YOU KNOW, BRAKE FLUID, STUFF LIKE THAT.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE HAD A PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE CLEANUP EFFORT AFTER THE STORMS. AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I HAVE NOT HEARD OR RECEIVED ANY REPORTS OF OF ANYTHING THAT WAS LEFT DOWN THERE.

NOW, WHEN WE DO TRAWLING THE NET IS, IS BEING DEPLOYED ALONG THE BOTTOM.

AND SO WE WILL ENCOUNTER SNAGS EVERY NOW AND THEN.

AND IT COULD BE NATURAL OUTCROPPINGS. IT COULD BE DEBRIS.

WE'RE NOT SURE. ONE TIME WE DID BRING UP THE COVER OF A MOTOR OF A BOAT.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF DOING CLEANUP EFFORTS AS WE TRAWL AND GET ANY REMAINING LITTLE ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE BAY BOTTOM WHEN WE TRAWL.

BUT MOSTLY WHAT WE GET ARE, YOU KNOW, SEAGRASS AND FISHERIES AND INVERTEBRATE SPECIES WITH THE OCCASIONAL DEBRIS SNAGS THAT WE'RE NOT SURE IF IT COULD BE NATURAL OR REMNANTS OF DEBRIS.

WELL, ONE OBVIOUS SOURCE IS THE GOLDEN GATE CANAL WHERE WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF HEAVY COPPER NITROGEN, YOU KNOW, COMING DOWN. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONNECTIONS OF THAT WHOLE WATERWAY SYSTEM, YOU'RE LIKE GOLDEN GATE CITY THAT HAS SEPTIC SYSTEMS THAT ARE ANCIENT

[01:00:07]

THOSE SEPTICS IN THERE ARE ANCIENT. I'VE SEEN THEM BECAUSE I'M INVOLVED IN REAL ESTATE AND TAKE THESE LIDS OFF.

THEIR TANKS ARE CRACKED. I MEAN, IT'S BAD. THESE ARE AND PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT PUTTING INVESTMENTS INTO THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT SEWERS IN THE FUTURE.

THEY'RE IN THAT LOCATION. SO IT'S A BIT OF A MESS AND THERE'S NO REGULATION OR ANYTHING.

NOBODY'S REALLY LOOKING AT THIS STUFF. SO IT COULD JUST BE LEAKING AND LEAKING, LEAKING.

IN THE MEANTIME IF YOU LOOK AT THE ACCUMULATION OVER TIME, WE'RE GOING TO HIT A WALL AT SOME POINT WHERE OUR BAY IS DEAD.

I'VE. I'VE LIVED ON THE BAY SINCE WATCHING IT SINCE THE 1990S, AND I CAN TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, I USED TO HAVE TONS OF MANGROVE SNAPPER AND MANGROVES BEHIND MY HOUSE.

STUFF. CATFISH WERE PLENTIFUL. YOU THROW A PIECE OF BREAD OFF TIN CITY, YOU'D HAVE 100 JUMP OUT IN THE WATER.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE THAT ANYMORE. NOWHERE CLOSE.

AND WE'RE LOSING OUR WILDLIFE. IS THERE ENOUGH SEAGRASS FOR THE MANATEES? IS THERE ENOUGH? IS THERE, IN YOUR OPINION, IS THERE ENOUGH THAT WE EVEN HAVE NOW TO SUSTAIN A SPECIES LIKE THAT? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SO UNFORTUNATELY I THINK SOME OF THESE ANALYZES WERE OUTSIDE.

THE OBJECTIVES OF THE STUDY AND WE DID LOOK INTO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL.

WE MOSTLY IDENTIFY TRENDS AND EVALUATED CONDITIONS.

BUT I. I THINK THAT EXISTING RESTORATION PROGRAMS AND PROGRAMS THAT ARE INTENDED TO RESTORE NATURAL CONDITIONS IN THE SYSTEM WILL BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN THE ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY OF THE SYSTEM AND AVOID FURTHER DEGRADATION. THE PROBLEM WITH SOME SUBSTANCES LIKE CHEMICALS, IS THAT THEY PERJURE IN THE SYSTEM FOR MUCH LONGER PERIODS THAN THE SYSTEM CAN ASSIMILATE SOME OF THE NUTRIENTS.

THE SYSTEM HAS INTERNAL CAPACITIES TO ASSIMILATE.

AND NUTRIENTS ARE IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN THE ECOLOGICAL INTEGRITY AND THE FOOD CHAIN.

BUT TOO MUCH AND CHANGES IN IN, IN PRODUCTIVITY CAN REALLY CHANGE THE THE SYSTEM.

HOW ABOUT THE THE CLARITY OF THE WATER. IS THERE ANY STUDIES ON, YOU KNOW, THE.

YEAH, THE LIQUID THE PARTICLES IN THE WATER, BECAUSE IT AFFECTS.

I REMEMBER DRIVING YOU SEE 50 PELICANS ON THE ROOF OF THAT TIN CITY.

AND I DON'T SEE ANY ANYMORE BECAUSE I THINK THE FISH POPULATION, THEY CAN'T EVEN SEE IT ANYMORE.

I MEAN, BUT YOU TELL ME WHAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLARITY SITUATION WE SAW IN THE TREND ANALYSIS? WE WE DETECTED INCREASES IN TURBIDITY AND REDUCE REDUCTIONS IN WATER CLARITY IN FEW LOCATIONS.

SO THAT UNFORTUNATELY IS IS NOT WHAT THE SYSTEM WOULD NEED.

FOR EXAMPLE, FOR SEAGRASS, THE SYSTEM NEEDS INCREASES IN WATER CLARITY TO SUPPORT SEAGRASS PRODUCTION AND COVERAGE. SO SOME OF THESE TURBIDITY PATTERNS CAN BE ASSOCIATED WITH SOME OF THE BIG STORMS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST. SO UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN WE HAVE HURRICANES AND BIG STORMS, THE AMOUNT OF DISTURBANCE.

THE DISTURBANCE OF SEDIMENTS IS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH THAT CAN CHANGE THE SYSTEM FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD.

SO SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE IMPACTING. BUT WE ALSO IDENTIFIED THAT TURBIDITY COMING FROM FRESHWATER SOURCES ARE IMPACTING WATER CLARITY IN DOWNSTREAM AREAS. ALSO THERE'S, THERE SEEMS AND THIS IS MORE TECHNICAL, BUT THE COLOR OF THE WATER FROM DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER COMING FROM UPSTREAM SOURCES IS ALSO PLAYING A ROLE IN THAT.

SO SOME OF THE CLARITY AND THE SECCHI DEPTH, WHICH MEASURES THE, THE CLARITY IN THE WATER ARE REDUCED IN PART BECAUSE OF HIGH COLOR CONDITIONS. SO HIGH.

WHAT COLOR? COLOR. HIGH. COLORING IN ORDER. NUTRIENT.

[01:05:01]

THAT CAN BE. THAT CAN BRING A BROWNISH AND DARK COLOR TO THE WATER.

AND THAT COLOR ITSELF DOESN'T ALLOW THE WATER TO PENETRATE ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM TO SUPPORT THE GROWTH OF SOME SEAGRASS SPECIES. YOU MENTIONED MOORINGS BAY. YOU KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE HAS A LITTLE MORE MORE DEEPER PROBLEM THAN, THAN, THAN NAPLES BAY. AND TO ME, AS A LAYMAN, IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS YOU GOT A CONCRETE SEA WALL ENVIRONMENT.

AND I THINK WHAT'S SAVING NAPLES BAY IS THE MANGROVES AND THE MUSCLES THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MORE QUITE A FEW BEHIND MY HOUSE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S KIND OF HELPING OUR POLLUTION SITUATION.

SO IT'S A TROUBLE WHEN YOU GO TO 100% SEAWALLS AND NOT RIPRAP AND MANGROVES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO EVEN IF YOU'RE GOING TO A SEAWALL, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IN PLANNING WHERE YOU DO RIPRAP AND MANGROVES IN FRONT OF THE SEAWALL OR SOMETHING TO HELP THE ENVIRONMENT.

BECAUSE IF YOU JUST GO TO A CONCRETE JUNGLE, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HUDSON RIVER, YOU KNOW, ALL THE TIME.

SO IT'S LIKE, IT'S LIKE WE DON'T WE DON'T. THIS IS VERY ALARMING TO ME BECAUSE I REALLY THINK WE'RE A TOURIST CITY HERE.

YOU KNOW, WATER QUALITY IS EVERYTHING. PEOPLE WANT TO BOAT FISH BEACH.

I MEAN, THIS IS THIS IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR OUR FOR OUR ECONOMY.

SO THIS IS THIS IS A MY VIEW IS CRITICAL. AND I APPLAUD DOCTOR GEORGE'S EFFORTS ON THIS.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST IT'S TREMENDOUS THAT WE I'M JUST THRILLED TO HAVE YOU HERE AND BUT WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE SOURCES, LIKE SOON. THEN WORK ON MITIGATION. BUT WE HAVE TO START CHOKING THE SOURCES.

AND I KIND OF SUSPECT A LOT OF THE SOURCES AND, YOU KNOW, THE GOLF COURSES WE GET A LOT OF COPPER COMES PROBABLY FROM THE GOLF COURSES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, ARE THEY PERIMETER SPRAYING ENOUGH, FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THE WATER ZONE? I MEAN, THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED WITH THE GOLF COMMUNITIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WHICH I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS BEING DONE THERE.

BECAUSE IT'S MAINLY THE COUNTY. BUT THESE ARE ISSUES.

I THINK WE NEED TO TALK TO THE COUNTY ABOUT BECAUSE WE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

THAT'S A GOOD STARTING POINT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

GREAT QUESTIONS. I DIDN'T THINK THAT ANYONE REALIZED THAT THERE WASN'T A SEPTIC POLICIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, WHICH REALLY IS A MAJOR ISSUE. I HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER KRAMER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND YOUR EXPERTISE IS AMAZING.

WITH RESPECT TO COLLECTING DATA, I'M ALL FOR IT.

BUT I WAS A FOOTBALL COACH FOR A LONG TIME. I'VE GOT LIKE, 400 DATA POINTS PER PLAY, RIGHT? I ALSO HAVE A SCHEDULE COMING UP THAT YOU HAVE TO PREPARE. IF I DON'T DO THIS, I'M GOING TO GET THE CRAP KICKED OUT OF ME. THEN I HAVE TO MOVE MY FAMILY BECAUSE WE LOSE.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE PREPARED. AND IT'S ALSO I GOT 40S TO MAKE THE NEXT CALL OR WE GO, WE GET PENALIZED. AND SO I JUST I'M JUST TELLING YOU, THAT'S HOW MY BRAIN WORKS IS WE GOT A LOT OF DATA.

AND THERE DOES BECOME A POINT WHERE, OKAY, WE HAVE ENOUGH.

I REALLY DO THINK, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE THERE YET. AND I THINK THE WAY THAT YOU'RE PHRASING IT AND THE WAY WE WANT TO DEFINE IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. DOCTOR GEORGE, I THINK THAT'S A BIG DEAL. IT CHANGES THE WHOLE CONVERSATION, QUITE FRANKLY.

HAVING SAID THAT. I MEAN, I REALLY WANT TO THINK ABOUT NEXT STEPS AND AND BIG PICTURE.

HOW WHAT'S THE NUT WE NEED TO CRACK? BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE'RE ON A PLAY CLOCK.

IT'S ACCUMULATING. IT'S BEEN ACCUMULATING. AND WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

AND I I'M GOING TO THROW THIS AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD OR NOT, BUT I'M GOING TO ANYWAY. IT'S ALSO I CAN'T HELP BUT CONNECT THE DOTS OF THE NAA WALKING AWAY FROM OUR NEGOTIATIONS ON A NEW LEASE, WHICH WOULD PROVIDE ALL SORTS OF RESOURCES FOR US TO HELP FIX THIS SORT OF THING.

AND I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE COUNTY AND THE STATE OR WHOEVER. AT LEAST WE SHOULD THEY SHOULD BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY ON THIS. NONETHELESS WHAT YOU SAID THERE IS FINITE RESOURCES. AND SO I JUST WANT TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE NUT IS.

WE HAVE TO CRACK AND WHAT THE POSSIBILITIES ARE LIKE.

SO WE'VE SEEN A CAR THAT DOES A FLIP IN THE AIR AND LANDS, RIGHT? WHAT IS THAT? METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING, WHAT CAR FLIPS AND LANDS ARE CLEAN WATER? THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW. AND THEN HOW MUCH IS THAT VEHICLE GOING TO COST? DID I SAY THAT RIGHT? IF I MIGHT, SIR. OKAY. AS PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS DO INCLUDE CONTINUING MASS LOADING MONITORING

[01:10:08]

CONCURRENT TO THAT. MONITOR OUR CARRYING CAPACITY.

WHERE ARE WE IN TERMS OF OUR CARRYING CAPACITY? THOSE ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL DRIVERS FOR STRATEGIC DECISION MAKING.

WHAT'S NEXT? SO WHAT YOU HAVE. A VERY GOOD STARTING POINT FOR US TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION FROM MAXIMUM CONCENTRATION LEVELS TO MASS LOADING, HOW LONG WE HAVE RECEIVED AND HOW MUCH WE HAVE RECEIVED.

MASS LOADING. WE TALKED ABOUT SUSPENDED SOLIDS BEING ABOUT 17 MILLION POUNDS ESTIMATED FOR NEXT TEN YEARS. ABOUT THAT MUCH. PREVIOUS TEN YEARS.

WHEN YOU WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS, THEN CONCENTRATIONS BECOME SECONDARY DIALOG.

BECAUSE NOW YOU GOT. WHAT'S OUR CARRYING CAPACITY, HOW MUCH WE CAN TAKE TO ANY PLUS MINUS MILLION POUNDS OF SUSPENDED SOLIDS COMING INTO OUR RECEIVING WATER. THAT'S NAPLES BAY, GORDON RIVER.

AND WHAT'S OUR CARRYING CAPACITY? IS IT 100,000 POUNDS THAT WE CAN HANDLE AND TREAT NATURALLY OR INDUCED MAN MADE SYSTEMS A PROGRAM THEREAFTER.

SO IN SUMMARY, I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE AT LEAST CONSENSUS FROM OUR COUNCIL THAT ARE WE ON TRACK AND DO WE HAVE THE CONSENSUS FROM OUR COUNCIL TO.

YES, CONTINUE TO MONITOR MCLS, BUT SHIFT OUR FOCUS TO MASS LOADING NUMBER ONE, CARRYING CAPACITY, IDENTIFY OUR CARRYING CAPACITY. CURRENTLY, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

HOWEVER, CONCURRENT TO THAT PARALLEL TRACK SEARCH FOR WHAT ARE THE TECHNOLOGIES HYBRID SYSTEMS OUT THERE, NATURE BASED TECHNOLOGY AND WHAT HAVE YOU AND WHAT ARE THE FEASIBILITY FROM FINANCIAL PERMITTING TECHNOLOGY STANDPOINT AND BRING THAT TO YOU AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE, NOT TEN YEARS FROM NOW, NOT FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, HOPEFULLY 24 MONTHS OUT.

AND THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAY, WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT RESTORATION OF NAPLES BAY, NOT MONITORING AND RESTORATION DEALS WITH CLEANUP AND FIXING WHAT CAME IN THE PAST.

THEN LET'S WORK ON WE DON'T HAVE TO DO RESTORATION ANYMORE.

LET'S FOCUS ON WHAT'S COMING AT US AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO REMEDIATE MITIGATE BEFORE IT REACHES OUR SYSTEM WITH LIMITED CARRYING CAPACITY. THOSE ARE THE BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS THAT WE NEED.

WE NEED TO AND WE OWE YOU TO BRING AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE.

BUT WE HAVE TO SHIFT OUR GEARS IN TERMS OF STRATEGIC MONITORING OBJECTIVES.

THAT IS, MOVE FROM MYSQL PARALLEL TO THAT MASS LOADING, PARALLEL TO THAT CARRYING CAPACITY.

DID WE ALREADY EXCEED IT OR DO WE HAVE ANY SO FAR.

I CAN SAY BASED ON MY VISUAL OBSERVATIONS, I LOVE THIS.

BY THE WAY, YOU DID HEAR ABOUT SUCH A DISC MONITORING.

THAT IS ONE OF THE SIMPLEST, OLDEST WAY OF MONITORING WATER CLARITY.

IT'S A SMALL DISC. IT HAS CROSS ON IT. YOU PUT IT IN THE WATER.

AND SCIENTISTS, VERY SMART APPLIED SCIENTISTS CAME UP WITH IT.

SO YOU PUT IT IN THE WATER AND IT GOES DOWN, DOWN, DOWN.

THE MOMENT YOU CANNOT SEE IT, YOU MEASURE THE DEPTH.

IT GIVES YOU A NUMBER. AND THAT'S YOUR CLARITY.

MONITORING. SO ONE OF THE LARGEST LAKE SYSTEM, OCKLAWAHA CHAIN OF LAKES IN CENTRAL FLORIDA HAS MORE SUCH DISC DATA THAN ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE LAKE DORA WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR IN 26 YEARS, BECAME LIKE LAKE APOPKA, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT ONE. LOOKS LIKE SPLIT GREEN PEAS EUTROPHIC.

THE OTHER ONE IS HOLOGRAPHIC, SO CAN THIS KIND OF CHANGES CAN HAPPEN VERY FAST IN THREE DECADES. IN FIVE DECADES, YOU CAN SEE CRYSTAL CLEAR LAKE GONE 100% EUTROPHIC BECAUSE WE FOCUS ON THE MCLS BUT NOT THE MASS LOADING AND CARRYING CAPACITY.

WE OVERLOADED THE SYSTEM. THEN IT STARTS PRECIPITATING SEDIMENT UP.

SO YOUR YOUR LOGIC IS RIGHT ON US, SIR. AND I THINK THAT AS PART OF OUR MONITORING AND WATER QUALITY IMPROVEMENT

[01:15:08]

WE'RE SEEKING THAT WE HAVE YOUR ENDORSEMENT TO NOT ONLY DO MCLS, BUT MASS LOADING FOR ALL POINT SOURCES, INCLUDING OUR OWN PUMP STATIONS. OKAY. AND THEN BRING THAT TO YOU NO LATER THAN 24 MONTHS.

AND THEN IDENTIFY WHAT'S OUR CARRYING CAPACITY IS FOR THOSE PARAMETERS THAT WE TESTED.

AND WE WILL TEST CONCURRENT AND PARALLEL TO THAT, WHAT'S OUR WHAT'S OUR STRATEGY MOVING FORWARD.

AND I WILL TELL YOU, WITHOUT HAVING ADDITIONAL DATA BASED ON COMMON SENSE AND, AND ACCUMULATED KNOWLEDGE BY OBSERVATIONS AND READING AND STUDYING MYSELF THAT I THINK THAT WE ARE AT THE POINT WE MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT.

YES, THERE IS A RESTORATION PROGRAM OUT THERE IN HORIZON AND NEAR FUTURE FOR NAPLES BAY AND GORDON RIVER.

HOWEVER, THAT DOESN'T FIX THE PROBLEM BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT TAKES ANOTHER 20, 30, 50 YEARS.

IF WE DON'T FIX WHAT'S COMING AT US, OUR CARRYING CAPACITY IS GOING TO DIMINISH AGAIN AT THE END, IT'S SIMPLE MATH, MATH. LIKE I SAID, 17 MILLION POUNDS OF SUSPENDED SOLIDS IS GOING TO ACCUMULATE SOMEWHERE.

SO I HOPE I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. DANA, THANKS FOR A TIMELINE.

IT GIVES ME HOPE. I JUST NEEDED SOME HOPE. THANK YOU.

24 MONTHS, 24 MONTHS. ON A STRATEGIC LEVEL, NOT SOLUTION SETS ON A STRATEGIC LEVEL WILL BE ABLE TO PARALLEL TRACK. TELL YOU HERE IS OUR MASS LOADINGS.

HERE IS OUR ESTIMATED CARRYING CAPACITY. WE'RE BELOW OR EXCEEDED OUR CARRYING CAPACITY THAT WILL TRIGGER THE DIALOG.

LET'S TALK ABOUT RESTORATION WHILE WE'RE WORKING ON EVERYTHING ELSE, INCLUDING UPSTREAM.

BUT THIS REPORT DOESN'T SHOW THAT WE'RE AT OUR CAPACITY CARRYING CAPACITY.

WE NEED 24 MONTHS. OKAY. MADAM MAYOR, I'M GOING TO SEGUE THIS INTO THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, JOINT SESSION AND PRIORITIES.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, EVEN FOLLOWING MY DISCUSSION WITH MISS PATTERSON LAST WEDNESDAY, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS THAT WE ALL THE WORKING EXPERTS, NEED TO HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

WE NEED TO BE MEETING WITH THEM ON A SEMIANNUAL BASIS AND JOINT SESSION.

AND THE THE LEADERSHIP SHOULD BE MEETING ON A QUARTERLY BASIS.

AND WATER, WATER QUALITY AND RESILIENCY NEED TO BE THE FOREFRONT OF THAT COMMITTEE.

SO SHE WAS AMENABLE TO THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT DISCUSSION AT THE END OF THE DAY TODAY IS GOING TO DISCUSS HOW WE CAN HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE ALL THE TIME IN ORDER TO BE BETTER PREPARED FOR WHAT'S COMING AT US.

AND SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT NOW, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE SEGUE.

WE HAVE TIME NOW AS WE CONTINUE TO GATHER DATA TO PUT THIS INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE.

SO WE'RE ALL SHARING THAT DATA AND TRY TO TAKE US TO ANOTHER PLACE.

AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'VE SAID IN THE PILLARS.

FROM A RESILIENCY STANDPOINT, IT NEEDS TO BE THAT WAY FROM A WATER QUALITY STANDPOINT AND THE VOLUME THAT'S COMING AT US.

SO. SO I THINK THAT WORKING TOGETHER AND SHAPING THAT UNDER THAT IS, IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS GAINING THE SCIENCE OVER THE NEXT 20 MONTHS, NEXT 24 MONTHS, WE SHOULD BE IN A POSITION TO PUT THE A LEADERSHIP, BOTH POLITICAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE IN PLACE TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS, TO COME UP WITH A PLAN, AND SETTING THAT WORKING FOUNDATION IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS GATHERING THE SCIENTIFIC DATA.

SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT UNDER THE LAST ITEM, BUT I THINK IT'S VERY RELEVANT HERE.

SO THANK YOU. TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.

THANK YOU. BARTON. YEAH, THE A LOT OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO TOUCH ON WAS ACTUALLY JUST TOUCHED ON, BUT I'LL, I'LL QUICKLY SUMMARIZE ANYWAY. WHAT WE NEED TO DO HERE IS, AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS COLLECTING DATA SO THAT WE CAN IDENTIFY THE PROBLEMS. WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THIS REPORT, BECAUSE THE SAME QUESTION THE MAYOR JUST HAD, THIS REPORT DOESN'T QUITE GIVE US ALL OF THE INFORMATION WE NEED TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEMS. AND WE NEED ANOTHER 24 MONTHS OF DATA COLLECTION IN ORDER TO DO THAT.

THAT'S WHAT I THINK I JUST HEARD. RIGHT. OKAY.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE TALKED ON, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FINITE RESOURCES AND THE SOLUTIONS.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WE NEED OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS TO USE THE DATA COLLECTION TO DETERMINE WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE.

WE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THE EXPERTS. OUR JOB THOUGH IS GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTING THE SOLUTIONS,

[01:20:04]

I UNDERSTAND WE'VE GOT FINITE RESOURCES AND, AND OTHER OBSTACLES.

BUT THAT'S WHAT THIS COUNCIL IS UP HERE TO DO.

AND THAT IS TO IMPLEMENT THE SOLUTIONS THAT ARE PROVIDED TO US BY OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, AND IT'S OUR JOB TO FIND RESOURCES NECESSARY TO IMPLEMENT THOSE SOLUTIONS, WHICH COMES TO EXACTLY WHAT OUR OUR CITY MANAGER JUST TOUCHED ON, WHICH IS THOSE EFFORTS NEED TO BE A JOINT EFFORT, SIGNIFICANT JOINT EFFORT WITH THE COUNTY, BECAUSE THIS DATA IS GOING TO SHOW US AND TELL US THAT A LOT OF OUR PROBLEMS ARE HAPPENING UPSTREAM AND WITHOUT THE COORDINATION WITH OUR COUNTY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO GET SOLVED.

SO THE IMPORTANT THING HERE IS, AND IT'S, IT'S THE AGE OLD ADAGE PARALYSIS THROUGH ANALYSIS.

I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU GUYS ARE TELLING ME YOU DON'T HAVE THE DATA NECESSARY TO, TO GIVE US THE, THE, THE SPECIFIC PROBLEMS AND THEREFORE THE SOLUTIONS TO THOSE PROBLEMS. I'LL TAKE YOU AT YOUR WORD FOR THAT. BUT GOOD GOD, MAN, AT SOME POINT IN TIME YOU GOT TO QUIT COLLECTING DATA AND IMPLEMENT A GAME PLAN.

AS COACH JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN ANALYZE THE HECK OUT OF WHY, WHY DOES, WHY DOES THE POWER SWEEP KEEP WHIPPING US? YOU CAN, YOU CAN LOOK AT IT UNTIL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE.

BUT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY SAY, HEY, LET'S START MAKING CHANGES AND TRY TO STOP THAT PROBLEM, THEN THE PROBLEM NEVER GETS STOPPED.

AND YOU SIT THERE AND JUST ANALYZE IT AND AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS.

SO AGAIN, IT'S FRUSTRATING AT TIMES WHEN YOU SAY, OKAY, YEAH, WE NEED ANOTHER 24 MONTHS.

AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE DON'T. I UNDERSTAND THAT WE DO. BUT IT'S FRUSTRATING BECAUSE WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS INSTEAD OF MORE DATA COLLECTION AND MORE STUDIES AND MORE ENGINEERS TALKING TO US ABOUT GETTING INTO THE MINUTIA, WHAT I, WHAT I REALLY AM LOOKING FORWARD TO AS, AS SOMEONE SITTING ON THIS COUNCIL IS GREAT. I SEE THAT YOU'VE COLLECTED THE DATA.

TELL ME WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE, WHAT THEY COST, AND THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT HOW TO HOW TO PAY FOR THOSE AND IMPLEMENT THEM AND WORK IN COORDINATION WITH THE COUNTY TO GET GET THE JOB DONE.

SO I THINK I'M VOICING A FRUSTRATION UP HERE.

FROM A COUNCIL PERSPECTIVE. WE DON'T HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO FIND THE SOLUTIONS.

WE NEED YOU GUYS TO GIVE US A SOLUTION SO THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT THE SOLUTIONS. AND UNTIL WE HAVE THOSE SOLUTIONS FROM YOU GUYS, UNTIL WE HAVE THESE SOLUTIONS FROM YOU GUYS, WE CAN'T IMPLEMENT ANYTHING.

AND THEN I'VE, OUR ENGINEER IS HAS GOT A COMMENT.

PLEASE FIRE AWAY. YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO, TO POINT OUT THAT WHAT WE, WHAT WE USE IN THE INDUSTRY IS MECHANISTIC MODELS THAT CAN HELP US LINK WATERSHED WITH RECEIVING WATER BODY CONDITIONS.

AND THESE TOOLS ARE, ARE VERY POWERFUL. THEY ALLOW US TO SCREEN OPPORTUNITIES, RIGHT? SO IF WE HAVE A LIST OF OPTIONS TO IMPLEMENT IN THE WATERSHED, THOSE MODELS CAN HELP US SCREEN THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AND ASSESS WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF THOSE PROJECTS IN THE RECEIVING WATER BODY MODELS AND OR IN THE RECEIVING WATER BODY? SO THESE TOOLS, THAT'S ONE WHY WE PUT ONE OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THERE IS THEY CAN GIVE YOU THE ANSWER TO THOSE QUESTIONS AS ANYTHING. WE MODELS HAVE UNCERTAINTIES, BUT THEY ARE A VERY GOOD WAY TO SCREEN PROJECTS AND PRIORITIZE. AND YOU CAN DETERMINE IF THERE ARE PROJECTS THAT ARE VERY COSTLY, BUT THEY DON'T PROVIDE AN EFFECTIVE TACKLE TO A LOADING PROBLEM. THEN YOU CAN MOVE TO OTHER SOLUTIONS OR OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

SO AWESOME. AND I AGAIN, I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS AND YOU'RE MAKING THE RIGHT MOVES AND YOU'RE COLLECTING THE RIGHT DATA ON OUR BEHALF SO THAT YOU CAN ULTIMATELY EVENTUALLY GIVE US THE SOLUTIONS NECESSARY TO, TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS, HOWEVER SOONER THE BETTER SO THAT WE CAN GET AT IT AND START FIXING THINGS. AND AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND, DOCTOR GEORGE, THAT WE NEED ANOTHER 24 MONTHS, AND I.

I ACCEPT THAT AS A REALITY BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU ARE MY SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT WE DO.

SO I. I TAKE THAT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH AND IT'S WORTH A LOT.

AND WE NEED ANOTHER 24 MONTHS. BUT AGAIN, SOLUTIONS ARE, ARE, ARE KEY HERE AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING THEM.

THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. THANK YOU. I AGREE WITH YOU ALL.

AND DEFINITELY PARTNERING WITH THE COUNTY. DO WE SHARE THIS DATA WITH THE COUNTY.

SO THIS DATA ANY DATA COLLECTED IS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE STATEWIDE SYSTEM.

IT'S CALLED WATERSHED INFORMATION NETWORK. SO IT'S ALL IT'S ALL SHAREABLE.

THEY ENTER THEIR DATA, WE ENTER OUR DATA AND ANYONE CAN ACCESS IT.

[01:25:04]

I WOULD SAY THAT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OF THAT.

SO WE SHARE OUR REPORTS THAT WE EACH GENERATE.

I'VE KIND OF WANTED TO, TO, I'VE ENVISIONED IN THE FUTURE TO, TO DO KIND OF LIKE A HOLISTIC REPORT INSTEAD OF US DOING OURS, THE COUNTY DOING THEIRS AND HAVING A MORE HOLISTIC LOOK AT THIS.

YEAH. SO WHERE I'M GOING THE WATERSHED. DO THEY DO EXTENSIVE SOURCE TESTING OF THE WATERSHED SO THAT THEY KNOW AND SHARE WITH US WHERE EXACTLY A LOT OF THIS POLLUTION IS COMING FROM.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT I COLLABORATE WITH THE POLLUTION CONTROL STAFF FREQUENTLY ON.

IF THEY'RE DOING ANY SOURCE TESTING OR THEY'RE DOING DYE TESTING, THEY'RE GETTING HITS OF BACTERIA UP ROCK CREEK, FOR EXAMPLE. THEY WILL SHARE THEIR OUTCOME OF THAT SOURCE TESTING.

AND IF THEY DETERMINE THAT A LEAK HAS OCCURRED, THEN THEY'LL SHARE WITH ME THAT IT HAS BEEN FIXED.

SO SO WE DO COLLABORATE ON THE SOURCE TRACKING.

YEAH. I THINK ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO BE A BIG TOPIC.

I THINK AT OUR JOINT WORKSHOP. WE MAY NEED POLITICALLY TO CONVINCE OUR FRIENDS AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS, NOT ONLY JUST TO TRACK THE DATA AND UNDERSTAND IT, BUT ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT PROJECTS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND THAT WATER QUALITY OF NAPLES BAY PARTICULARLY, BUT THE WHOLE AREA IS OUR HUGE ECONOMIC DRIVER.

IF WE HAVE BAD WATER QUALITY, IT'S GOING TO AFFECT PROPERTY VALUES, WHICH AFFECTS THIS ISN'T JUST A ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE.

IT IS, BUT IT'S A BIG ECONOMIC ISSUE AS WELL.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY ALL GET THAT. AT FOR INSTANCE, THEY DON'T CHARGE A STORMWATER FEE RIGHT IN THE COUNTY.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY DO NOT HAVE STORMWATER FEE STRUCTURE.

HOWEVER, THEY DO HAVE A SPECIAL FUND FUNDED BY AT TAXES PARTITIONED FOR STORMWATER.

MADAM MAYOR BECAUSE AT PROPERTY TAXES THEY'RE USING BASICALLY PROPERTY TAXES.

YET AT LEAST ONE COUNTY COMMISSIONER IS ADVOCATING FOR THE PASSAGE OF AMENDMENT THREE THAT WOULD DRASTICALLY REDUCE PROPERTY TAXES, WHAT, 80 OR $100 MILLION FOR THE COUNTY? IT'S IT'S A BIG ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK THEY QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW ALL OF THIS IS, IS INTERCONNECTED.

SORRY. YEAH, I JUST I THINK THOUGH, I THINK GOING INTO THIS DISCUSSION, WE HAVEN'T SAT DOWN FOR THE COUNTY WITH THE COUNTY.

I BELIEVE NOW IT'S BEEN TWO AND A HALF, THREE YEARS.

AND SO I THINK THAT RECOGNIZING WE HAVE A JOINT INTEREST AND THAT WE BOTH HAVE, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THIS THE RIGHT WAY. I'M TRYING TO SAY IT BECAUSE WHETHER THEY HAVE A STORMWATER OR THEY MAY PUT ONE IN, WE HAVE A BOAT, WE BOTH HAVE AN INTEREST IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT EACH ONE OF OUR RESOURCES ARE THAT WE CAN BRING TO THE TABLE TO SOLVE THE ISSUE, NOT NECESSARILY GO INTO THE MEETING WITH TRYING TO TELL THEM HOW THEY SHOULD SOLVE IT.

AND I SAY THAT WITH THE UTMOST RESPECT. AND THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON, BECAUSE I KNOW OF THINGS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT THEY MAY DO OR NOT DO.

AND I DON'T THINK I GUESS I WANTED TO SAY THIS IN THE MOST RESPECTFUL WAY, IS GETTING BACK AT A TABLE TOGETHER IS THE BEST WAY TO COME OUT OF THIS MEETING IN DECEMBER. AND IF WE CAN DO THAT, THAT'S WHY I SAID WE YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THERE'S DATA GATHERING NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE.

BUILDING THE POLITICAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE WILL TO WORK TOGETHER ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN IN ONE MEETING IN DECEMBER, BUT WE NEED TO START TO MOVE THERE. SO I WASN'T TRYING TO INTERRUPT.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU KNEW THAT. I THINK THEY RECOGNIZED SOME OF THEIR DEFICIENCIES IN THE SENSE OF PROPERTY TAXES AND WHAT IT COULD DO TO THEM, WHAT THIS COULD DO. AND THE OTHER BUT I THINK CONVINCING EACH OTHER WE BOTH HAVE A VESTED INTEREST COMING OUT OF THAT MEETING, REGARDLESS OF HOW WE END UP PAYING OUR PROPORTIONAL SHARE.

WE EACH HAVE TO MAKE THOSE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS, BUT MORE SO THAT WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER.

AND I HOPE I SAID THAT IN THE MOST APPROPRIATE WAY.

TOTALLY, TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. I JUST THINK IT'S HELPING EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND IT'S A SHARED ISSUE.

IT'S NOT THEIR ISSUE OR OUR ISSUE. IT'S US TOGETHER.

AND SOME OF IT'S EDUCATION, SOME OF IT'S SHARING THE DATA THAT THEY HAVE THAT WE HAVE.

WHAT ARE WE DOING? WHAT ARE THEY DOING? WHAT CAN WE DO BETTER TOGETHER? AND GETTING A COMMITMENT FOR A JOINT TASK FORCE OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT'S NEEDED TO TAKE SOME REAL ACTION AND HAVE A REAL IMPACT ON THIS.

[01:30:02]

AND THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, THE SHARING OF THE INFORMATION AND MAKING SURE YOU HAVE WORKING GROUPS AND YOU HAVE LEADERSHIP GROUPS, AND THEN IT MAKES ITS WAY TO THE DAIS GROUPS. IT'S WHEN IT SITS IN ONE PLACE AND THE OTHER DOESN'T EVEN KNOW IT'S HAPPENING.

AND IN FAIRNESS, WHEN I MET WITH HER AND I SHARED WITH HER THAT WE WERE HAD PUSHED BACK GULF ACRES, ROSEMARY HEIGHTS, PHASE TWO AND THREE, BECAUSE WE IN TERMS OF THE SEPTIC TO SEWER PROJECT, BECAUSE WE WERE TAKING ON RIVER PARK EAST FIRST, 10TH AND 12TH AND THE OTHER.

THAT WAS A SOMEWHAT OF A SURPRISE TO THEM. SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE COMMUNICATIONS, I WANT IT TO BE BOTH WAYS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO LAY THE FOUNDATION.

SO I AGREE WITH YOU 250%. MR. BLANKENSHIP THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. SORRY. I ALSO HAVE SOME SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THE ON THE STUDY.

JUST WANTED TO START WITH THAT. SO THE COPPER MEASURES BEING DOWN, DO WE KNOW WHAT SPECIFIC EDUCATION CAMPAIGN OR POLICY CHANGES EITHER IN THE CITY OR THE COUNTY THAT HAVE HELPED DRIVE THAT CHANGE? AND WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM IT TO MAYBE REDUCE NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS AND OTHER OTHER ITEMS? CAN I JUST CLARIFY, IS COPPER GOING DOWN? I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

COPPER. THE COPPER MEASUREMENTS HAD GONE DOWN.

WE SEE DETECTABLE TRENDS. DECREASING TRENDS IN COPPER IN THE SYSTEM.

SPECIFICALLY THAT WAS THE GORDON RIVER AND LOWER HALDEMAN CREEK.

SO BOTH THE CITY AND THE COUNTY HAVE COLLABORATED ON OUTREACH EFFORTS IN THE PAST ABOUT USING COPPER SULFATE AND HOW THAT CAN AFFECT OUR NATURAL WATERWAYS AND TURNING TO ALTERNATIVES. SO I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT THE REDUCTIONS ARE A RESULT OF THOSE OUTREACH EFFORTS.

GREAT. SO KEEP IT UP. YES. AND SEE HOW WE CAN ADD TO IT.

AND YOU PROBABLY IT'S PROBABLY CONTINUOUS LIKE, SAY GOLF COURSES AS AS JOHN SAID, THOSE PEOPLE CHANGE OVER YEAR AFTER YEAR.

SO MAKING SURE NEW PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WORKS IS, IS HELPFUL.

OYSTER BEDS THAT WE'VE PLANTED IN THE, IN THE BAY.

DO, DO WE DO ANY TESTING SPECIFICALLY AROUND THEM TO SEE HOW WELL THEY'RE WORKING? SO WE HAVE SOME SAMPLE SITES THAT ARE ADJACENT TO THE OYSTER REEFS THEMSELVES.

IT'S, IT'S A LARGE AREA, ESPECIALLY THE, THE 23 OYSTER REEFS WE HAVE OFF OF WINDSTAR THAT IT'S IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO QUANTIFY WHEN IT'S IN THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT OF, OF WHAT EFFECT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS LABORATORY STUDIES THAT HAVE SHOWN BEFORE AND AFTERS WITH OYSTER REEFS, AND WE CAN EXTRAPOLATE THAT INTO THE FIELD OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH WITH OUR RESTORED REEFS.

SO WE DO MONITOR THE REEFS THEMSELVES IN TERMS OF THE DENSITY OF OYSTERS.

AND THAT HAS BEEN A GREAT SUCCESS. AND THEY'RE RECRUITING MANGROVES AS WELL, WHICH IS AN ADDED BENEFIT AND AND STABILIZING THE SHORELINE.

SO WE'VE SEEN ALL OF THOSE BENEFITS COLLECTIVELY FROM THOSE RESTORATION EFFORTS.

AWESOME. AND THAT'S GOOD INFORMATION TO SHARE WITH PEOPLE IN CASE WE CAN DO MORE THINGS LIKE THAT, GET THE FUNDING FOR IT, OR FIND SUITABLE LOCATIONS FOR IT.

AND THEN SEAGRASSES, IT LOOKS LIKE WE MONITOR AND TEST IN NAPLES BAY, BUT NOT MOORINGS BAY.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR REASON WE DON'T DO MOORINGS BAY.

SO THE ONLY REAL SHALLOW AREAS IN MOORINGS BAY IS THAT FLOOD TIDE SHOAL RIGHT INSIDE DOCTOR'S PASS.

THAT IS MONITORED ON A REGULAR BASIS WHEN THE DREDGING CYCLE COMES UP, THE STATE REQUIRES THAT AREA TO BE MONITORED, SO THE COUNTY INCLUDES THAT BY DEFAULT AS A PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

SO THEY HAVE TO MAP THAT AREA TO ENSURE THEY'RE NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACTING THE SEAGRASS.

AS FAR AS THE REST OF MOORINGS BAY. IT'S SO DEEP THAT THERE REALLY ISN'T THAT FIVE FOOT OR LESS CONTOUR LINE THAT WE CAN SNORKEL AROUND AND ACTUALLY SEE OR MONITOR SEAGRASS. WE KNOW IT'S THERE FROM THE TRAWLING PROGRAM THAT WE USED TO DO THERE, SO THAT WHEN WE BRING IT UP IN THE NET, WE'LL NOTE THAT IT WAS IT WAS FOUND IN THE NET, BUT THAT'S IN DEEPER WATERS WHERE YOU CAN'T REALLY DO TRANSECT MONITORING.

OKAY. IN THE CLAM PASS INTERCHANGE THROUGH THOSE CULVERTS.

DO WE TEST OR MONITOR THAT TO SEE IF THAT TIDAL INTERCHANGE IS HELPING MORE THE NORTHERN PART OF MOORINGS BAY OR HURTING THE NORTHERN PART OF MOORINGS BAY. SO WE DO HAVE A SAMPLE LOCATION AT THAT NORTHERN PORTION THAT TENDS TO BE WHERE WE SEE LOWER DISSOLVED OXYGEN.

IT'S A LOWER BOTTOM WATER DISSOLVED OXYGEN VERSUS THE TOP.

[01:35:02]

BUT THAT INTERCHANGE WAS RECENTLY MAINTAINED I BELIEVE BY NAPLES CAY OR HAWKS HAWKS CAY, THEY HAVE OWNERSHIP OVER THAT. SO THEY HAD MAINTAINED THOSE CULVERTS TO ENSURE THAT FLOW.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT THE PELICAN BAY AND CLAM BAY WORKING GROUPS HAVE CONDUCTED OR IN THE PROCESS OF DOING SOME ADDITIONAL MODELING FOR CLAM BAY. SO THAT MAY ALSO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THAT QUESTION.

GREAT. YEAH. HOPEFULLY COUNCILMAN SCHULTZ CAN SHARE SOME INFO ON IT, ON IT LATER, BECAUSE THAT OBVIOUSLY THE NORTHERN PART OF MORGAN'S BAY DOESN'T GET MUCH WATER OTHER THAN SWAN LAKE, RIGHT. OR DEVIL'S LAKE.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT INTERCHANGE IS WORKING AS DESIGNED, THAT WOULD SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

THE SUSPENDED SOLIDS PROBLEM. THE BIG CYPRESS BASIN PUMP STATION PROJECT IN THE PICAYUNE STRAND STATE FOREST THAT I GOT TO SEE THOSE GIANT PUMP STATIONS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU EITHER OF YOU BEEN, BUT THEY HAVE A REALLY COOL AUTOMATED SYSTEM TO CAPTURE AND REMOVE TRASH, LIMBS, BRANCHES, LEAVES, ALL THAT STUFF. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT COST OR HOW LONG IT TAKES TO INSTALL, BUT WE MIGHT COULD LEARN SOMETHING FROM IT. IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ALREADY, TO SEE IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD WORK IN THE CREEKS OR IN THE CANAL OR THE GORDON RIVER TO AUTOMATICALLY CAPTURE AND REMOVE SOME OF THAT STUFF THAT'S COMING IN.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE YOU SEEN THAT INACTION? YES, SIR. AND OUR CO PUMP STATION ALREADY GONE THROUGH DESIGN IN TERMS OF IMPROVEMENTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO DO IN OUR PUMP STATION IS PRETREATMENT AND WHERE NEEDED ADVANCED TREATMENT.

SO THAT WILL HAVE ITS OWN TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT AND ANALYSIS.

ALONG WITH OUR BEACH OUTFALL PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE PUMP STATIONS.

AND PHASE TWO IS GOING TO INCLUDE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH NOT ONLY GRAVITY SYSTEM, BUT WHAT WE CAN DO IN OUR PRESSURIZED SYSTEM IN TERMS OF ENHANCED WATER QUALITY TREATMENT, INCLUDING BACTERIOLOGICAL AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

SO NOT ONLY SEDIMENTS, BUT ALSO OTHERS. YEAH.

TO THE EXTENT IT'S FEASIBLE. AND ONE OF THESE SETTINGS, IT MIGHT BE A GREAT JOINT PROJECT WITH THE BIG CYPRESS BASIN AND THE COUNTY TO CAPTURE AND REMOVE THINGS FROM THOSE INCOMING WATER SOURCES.

I JUST IT LOOKED COOL TO ME, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S FEASIBLE.

AND I THINK, I THINK I WILL SAY, I WILL SAY COUNCILMAN IT IS FEASIBLE.

AND IT GOES BACK TO THE DIALOG OUR CITY MANAGER INITIATED.

AND WHEN I MENTIONED NEXT 24 MONTHS, WE'RE HEARING YOU LOUD AND CLEAR AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE US AND MYSELF AND OUR TEAM AND OUR CITY MANAGER DOING JUST DATA MONITORING.

THERE WILL BE PARALLEL TRACKS. THAT'S THE DIALOG.

WE INITIATED ROBUST THROUGH OUR CITY MANAGER WITH COUNTY AND BIG CYPRESS BASIN ONE MEETING THAT YOU WERE PART OF IT, SIR. AND SO THAT'S THAT COMMUNICATION IS CONCURRENT IN TERMS OF HOW WE CAN OPTIMIZE OUR RESOURCES AND HOW WE CAN MERGE OUR COLLECTIVELY DATABASES WE ALREADY HAVE AND DATA THAT WE'RE GOING TO COLLECT.

AND THE OTHER PIECE IS THAT I DID HEAR COPPER COPPER CONCENTRATIONS GOING DOWN, AND THAT'S WHY I DID JUMP IN AND SAY, LET'S FOCUS ON MASS LOADING RATHER THAN CONCENTRATIONS.

EVEN THOUGH CONCENTRATIONS MIGHT SHOW DEGREES, BUT WE'RE STILL GETTING CLOSE TO 4,600 POUNDS OF COPPER.

THEN DO WE HAVE THE CARRYING CAPACITY TO ABSORB IT? AND THAT'S WHAT, FRANKLY, PARALLEL TRACKS ONE CONTINUE TO SHIFT GEARS FOCUS ON MASS LOADING FOR NEXT 24 MONTHS.

CONTINUE. BUT DON'T WAIT. AS WE HAVE THE DATA, START LOOKING INTO WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITHIN OUR CONTROL, WITHIN OUR UTILITY SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE AND INCREASE OUR TREATMENT CAPACITY AND CARRYING CAPACITY.

AND THEN CONCURRENT TO THAT, WITHIN THAT 24 MONTHS, START LOOKING AT STRATEGICALLY AND CONCURRENTLY.

ARE WE READY TO TALK ABOUT RESTORATION OF NAPLES BAY? SO IT'S A DATA COLLECTION PLUS FEASIBILITY ASSESSMENT, CARRYING CAPACITY IDENTIFICATION, JOINT EFFORTS.

[01:40:06]

IT'S TIME TO RESTORE OUR NAPLES BAY. I MEAN, THAT'S ALREADY WE ARE.

I THINK THAT NEXT 24 MONTHS GET THE MARGINAL DATA, IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE HAVE DONE LAST 2 OR 3 DECADES TO THE POINT THAT IT FEEDS THE SOLUTION SETS AND DESIGN CRITERIA, INCLUDING POTENTIAL RESTORATION REMEDIATION LIKE WE DID LAKE TROUT.

LAKE TROUT WAS RESTORED AND AMOUNT OF AMOUNT OF SEDIMENT WE RECOVERED FROM IT.

SOME OF IT WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO WITH IT.

SO. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. YEAH. I THINK YOU'RE HEARING LOUD AND CLEAR SUPPORT FROM ALL OF US FOR THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TESTING, MODELING, BUT ALSO ACTION. TO START IMPLEMENTING CHANGES THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

LOUD AND CLEAR, SIR. THANKS A LOT. THANK YOU.

AND ALSO, VICE MAYOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND PARTICIPATING IN GETTING TO KNOW THE BIG CYPRESS BASIN AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD A SEAT AT THE TABLE FOR A LONG TIME.

SO I, I HOPE THAT CONTINUES BECAUSE IT'S VITAL.

THANKS. I THINK THEY'RE EAGER TO HELP AND WORK WITH US.

SO THAT WAS GOOD NEWS. IT'S ALSO A GOOD SOURCE FOR GRANTS.

YES. DEPENDING ON RELATIONSHIPS. AND DID YOU HAVE SCHULTZ? YEAH. OFTENTIMES, WE LOSE SIGHT OF WHERE WE ARE IN THE EQUATION WITH OUR OTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES.

WE'RE QUICK TO TELL PEOPLE AND OTHER, OTHER GOVERNMENTAL BODIES WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING.

AND IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS, WE HAVE THE STATE, THE REGION, THE COUNTY, THE CITY.

AND FOR US TO CONTINUALLY BE PREACHING TO PEOPLE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING INSTEAD OF COLLABORATIVELY.

FOR INSTANCE, THIS WEEKEND I HAD READ AN ARTICLE THAT THE COUNTY IS GOING TO GET RID OF A NUMBER OF THEIR COMMITTEES.

THAT'S PROBABLY A REALLY GOOD IDEA. THEY'RE GOING TO DO A STUDY AND RESTRUCTURE. I JUST IMPRESSED UPON A COUPLE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OVER THE WEEKEND THAT WE WOULD APPRECIATE THEY DON'T GET RID OF THE CLAMBAKE COMMITTEE. WE'D APPRECIATE THAT.

DON'T GET RID OF THE COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE. PARDON? YOU JUST. YOU WRECK. WHAT? I'M SORRY. YOU DIDN'T HEAR THAT CLEARLY.

THERE WAS AN ARTICLE SAYING THAT THE COUNTY IS EXPLORING, GETTING RID OF A LOT OF THEIR COMMITTEES.

THAT IT'S A BURDEN. THEY PAY TOO MUCH. I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER HALL WAS THE ONE THAT WAS ADDRESSING THAT.

RIGHT OR WRONG? THAT'S THEIR PERSPECTIVE AT THE COUNTY WIDE LEVEL OR AT THE CITY.

AND SHOULD WE BE TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO? SINCE I HAVE DECENT RELATIONSHIPS, I TALKED WITH THEM OVER THE WEEKEND.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THOSE TWO COMMITTEES. WHAT I LEARNED AT THE REGIONAL SOUTHWEST FLORIDA REGIONAL PLANNING BOARD, THERE'S A LOT OF PLANS THAT ARE BEING THE THE FOUNDATIONS BEING SET NOW WITH THE CHANGE IN GOVERNORS THAT THERE ARE PLANS THAT DONALD BYRON DONALDS WILL HAVE THAT HE WANTS TO SEE IMPLEMENTED.

HE'S GOT CLOSE TIES WITH EVERYBODY AROUND HERE AND IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE HIM OR NOT, HE'S A GOOD SHOT OF BEING THE GOVERNOR.

SO WORKING WITH THESE FOLKS AND HAVING POSITIVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE GO BACK A BIT AND THIS IS I DIGRESS, IF WE HADN'T ATTACKED SOME FOLKS IN TALLAHASSEE OVER 4005, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH DIFFERENT OUTCOME. SO WE NEED TO TRY TO TEMPER OURSELVES AND WHAT WE TELL PEOPLE, WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING. WE CAN WORK WITH THEM AND HAVE BETTER RELATIONS WITH THEM.

BUT IN GENERAL, I KNOW I NEVER LIKED WHEN MY MOM WAS TELLING ME WHAT I WAS DOING WRONG. I GOT TO DO THIS DIFFERENT AND DO THAT DIFFERENTLY.

BUT IF YOU HAVE GOOD RELATIONS THAT TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP AND YOU INTERACT WITH FOLKS WITH RESPECT, I THINK WE CAN GET A LOT MORE DONE. AND I APPLAUD EVERYBODY HERE FOR THE COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS THAT THEY'RE ON THAT ARE A RESULT OF THIS CITY COUNCIL AND THE ASSIGNMENTS THAT WE ALL HAVE. AND SO I JUST AGAIN, JUST PICKED UP THE PHONE AND CALLED A COUPLE COMMISSIONERS AND SAID, I SAW THIS AND WE'D LIKE TO SEE THIS AND CONTINUE.

AND WELL, IT MAKES SENSE. SO WE HEARD YOU. NOW WE'LL SEE HOW IT ALL ENDS UP IN THE SPIN CYCLE.

BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT WE COULD AGAIN WORK COLLEGIALLY WITH, WITH FOLKS AND AND NOT ALWAYS TELL FOLKS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING WHEN WE, THE HIERARCHY THINGS AND WE'RE NOT AT THE TOP OF THE HIERARCHY, ALTHOUGH WE THINK WE ARE MANY TIMES THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD INTENTIONS HERE,

[01:45:02]

AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. BUT CITY COUNCIL'S BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE.

AND IF WE DON'T HAVE THE RELATIONSHIPS, WHY? AND AGAIN, I THINK THAT THE MORE WE CAN TRY TO NOT TELL FOLKS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING AND WORK WITH THEM AND SUGGEST THAT THIS IS HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE MORE FRUIT ON THE TREES.

THANK YOU. NO THANK YOU. I WON'T REPEAT WHAT'S BEEN SAID BECAUSE I THINK. AND DIRECTION AND I LOOK, I ACTUALLY THANK YOU.

KRAMER. I HAVE HOPE BECAUSE SITTING ON HERE SITTING AT THE DAIS SINCE OH NINE AND I KNOW YOU WERE AT THE COUNTY DOCTOR GEORGE AND I WAS ON THE REGIONAL PLANNING COUNCIL, AND I WOULD ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR WATERSHED, OUR WATER QUALITY. AND THAT WAS GOOD. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD LEADERSHIP AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD MANAGEMENT IN ORDER FOR STAFF TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY GET THEIR GOALS ACCOMPLISHED.

SO I DO HAVE HOPE. IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING FOR ME BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN THE CHANGES THAT NEED TO HAPPEN. I WILL SAY THAT WE DO I'LL JUST SAY I THINK THE MOORINGS BAY NEEDS THIS PRESENTATION. AND I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME THINGS IF YOU DISAGREE.

FINE. LET ME KNOW. BUT I THINK THAT THE MOORINGS BAY NEEDS TO HAVE THIS EDUCATION AND HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEIR POSITION IS AND WHAT THEIR COMMITTEE IS TO DO.

AND WHEN YOU SAID NO MORE TROLLING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED OR TROLLING, TROLLING, NOT TROLLING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE, BUT I KNOW YOU USED TO BE VERY INVOLVED WITH THE MOORINGS AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN, THAT THERE'S SOME REAL GUIDANCE FOR THEM. BECAUSE THEY, THAT LAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS, IT WAS TOUGH FOR YOU, KATIE, AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN WORK ON THE MOORINGS.

EDUCATION ON GOLF COURSES. I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO SEE SOME POLICIES AND SOME WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO IN OUR EDUCATION OUTREACH.

NOT ONLY JUST WITH THE GOLF COURSES, BUT AGAIN, WITH OUR LANDSCAPING COMPANIES AND WITH THE COUNTY, WHICH IS ALSO RELATES TO CLAM BAY AND THE POLICIES OF CLAM BAY AND THE DREDGING AND WORKING CLOSELY WITH PELICAN BAY BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY INFLUENTIAL ON, ON THAT AREA.

SHARING THE INFORMATION WITH THE COUNTY IS GREAT, BUT WE DEFINITELY NEED TO SEE MORE STRATEGIC GOALS AND MORE INTERACTIVE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THEM.

AND THAT TAKES ME TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE POLICIES THAT WE HAVE.

AND IF STAFF COULD WORK ON THOSE POLICIES THAT ARE IN THE NATURAL RESOURCES AND STRENGTHEN THOSE, SINCE WE'RE WORKING ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

BECAUSE IT'S AGAIN, GOES BACK TO AS STRONG AS THE MANAGEMENT AND THE STAFF AND THE POLICIES ARE THERE THAT CAN BE FOLLOWED. AND THAT'S THE ONLY REAL TEETH THAT WE CAN HAVE ONCE I'M, I'M OFF.

AND ANY OF US AND THE EFFORTS THAT WE'VE PUT FORWARD.

SO I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON STRENGTHENING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FROM THAT NATURAL RESOURCES AND, AND COUNTY PARTNERSHIP, THAT INNER GOVERNMENTAL PIECE WHICH YOU MENTIONED, MR. YOUNG BECAUSE YOU'RE QUITE AMAZING, MR. YOUNG, THAT WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE ADDRESSING, THAT YOU KNOW, THAT THAT COUNTY IS A BIG PIECE.

AND I APPRECIATE THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO AND ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU ACCOMPLISH IN A DAY, BUT THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. AGAIN, BIG CYPRESS IN THE SOUTH WATER MANAGEMENT, I THINK IT'S VITAL THAT ONCE WE GET TO A POINT THAT THEY COME IN AND WE KNOW THEM, THAT SPEAKS TO YOUR RELATIONSHIP BUILDING.

COVE PUMP STATION, WE DO HAVE THE RAKE. THAT IS I DON'T KNOW, WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE IT BETTER.

[01:50:09]

WE WILL IMPROVE THE PRETREATMENT, INCLUDING BAR SCREENS AND AND MULTI-LAYER BAR SCREENS THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

AND WE MAY HAVE TO GET INTO REBUILD OF THE PUMPING CAPACITY ALONG WITH THAT PRESSURE DRIVEN ENHANCED TREATMENT, INCLUDING BACTERIAL BACTERIOLOGICAL LIKE USING TECHNOLOGIES ALSO ON THE ORGANIZATION UV TECHNOLOGY AND ACTIVATED CARBON FILTERS AMONG POROUS NANOFILTRATION.

THERE ARE SO MANY PROVEN TECHNOLOGIES OUT THERE, WE CAN PICK AND CHOOSE, BUT THAT WILL BE OUR BENCHMARK.

AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND ALSO DEMONSTRATION PROJECT WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T WORK, AT LEAST WHAT WE'RE DISCHARGING TO OUR OWN BAY IS GOING TO BE FROM A MASS LOADING STANDPOINT, AS WELL AS CONCENTRATION STANDPOINT WILL ENHANCE AND IMPROVE CARRYING CAPACITY.

IT WAS THE ENHANCED TREATMENT. SO YOU NAILED IT.

THANK YOU. WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT OUR WE HAVEN'T DONE MUCH WITH THE SEAWALL POLICIES.

I THINK IT'S KIND OF IN LIMBO. AND THE MANGROVE POLICIES I KNOW THE STATE HAS A HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON MANGROVES, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO IN PUTTING IT INTO OUR POLICIES.

WE USED TO IN THE NATURAL RESOURCES SAY THAT YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH STAFF IN ORDER TO REMOVE ANY MANGROVES.

AND I THINK WE SHOULD STRENGTHEN THAT POLICY.

HOWEVER WE CAN. YES, MA'AM. AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THAT WITHIN UPCOMING SEAWALL STUDY IN TERMS OF HEIGHT.

BUT DEFINITELY WE CAN INCLUDE EVERYTHING WE'RE HEARING TODAY AS PART OF THAT, AT LEAST ON A STRATEGIC LEVEL WITH THAT.

I THANK YOU. I THINK STAFF I DO HAVE HOPE THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO HAVE DATA AND BETTER DATA THAT'S GOING TO ACTUALLY GIVE US A PATHWAY TO ACCOMPLISHING WHAT I KNOW OUR CONSTITUENTS WANT, WE WANT. THAT'S PROBABLY WHY WE RAN. I KNOW I DID WATER QUALITY WAS MY PRIORITY, SO I'LL LEAVE IT AS WE HAVE HOPE AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AND WHERE WE'RE GOING, AND TO SUCCESS IN MAKING SURE THAT WE REALLY HAVE THE DATA AND MAKE IT WORK FOR US. SO THANK YOU. WITH ONE QUICK NOTE, THE MOORINGS BAY CAC COMMITTEE, THEY WILL BE RECEIVING THIS PRESENTATION TOMORROW.

OH, AND IT'LL BE A MODIFIED MORE HONED IN FROM THE MOORINGS BAY SYSTEM.

SO YEAH I THAT COMMITTEE I THINK NEEDS STRONG DIRECTION ON WHAT EXACTLY THEY'RE.

CHARGED TO DO. AND IF THEY HAVE THINGS THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN DOING.

I REMEMBER LONG AGO AND I'M SORRY, I FORGET HIS NAME, BUT HE WAS UP IN GULF SHORE BOULEVARD NORTH AND HE WAS INCREDIBLE WORKING WITH YOU ON THE OYSTERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M. HE AND HIS WIFE WERE VERY INVOLVED.

I'M HAVING A MIND BLANK. ARE YOU THINKING OF AL KATZ? YES, MR. AND MRS. KATZ. YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES.

IT TAKES PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED AND MAKE SURE THAT OUR COMMITTEES AREN'T JUST BICKERING OR NOT ACHIEVING THE POLICIES THAT WE WANT TO SET FORWARD. SO THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOU WORKING WITH THEM.

ANYTHING YOU NEED FROM US DIRECTION SUPPORT. YOU'VE GOT MONEY YOU CAN FIND MR. YOUNG. I THINK WE HAVE WHAT WE NEEDED. AND YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD THE PRESENTATION, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT ON MANY FRONTS.

I BELIEVE THE SEA WALLS ARE SET TO COME BACK TO YOU IN NOVEMBER.

SO GREAT. ALL RIGHT, WELL, WE'RE IN NEED OF A BREAK, SO THANK YOU.

[01:55:05]

OKAY, WE'RE BACK FROM BREAK AND WE'RE CONTINUING ON WITH ITEM FIVE C.

[5.C) Discussion related to the 5th Avenue South Special Overlay District Specific Provisions.]

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE VALET, WHICH IS IS SET TO EXPIRE RIGHT NOW IN OCTOBER OF 2027.

AND SO WE THOUGHT WHILE WE WOULD PUT AS MUCH OF THESE IN THE SAME AGENDA ITEM, TO JUST HAVE A GENERAL OVERVIEW DISCUSSION OF THE VALET PROVIDING THE NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS WITH AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE FOR THIS DISCUSSION, SO THAT AT LEAST WHENEVER WE DO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION YOU GET A TOTAL PICTURE OF THE AVENUE FROM A LEGISLATIVE PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO ERICA MARTIN AND LET HER GO THROUGH THIS ITEM WITH YOU.

SO THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. COUNCIL ERIKA MARTIN, PLANNING DIRECTOR.

WE HAVE FOR YOU TODAY A DISCUSSION ITEM, AND THIS IS RELATED TO THE FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH SPECIAL OVERLAY DISTRICT.

THIS IS SIMILAR TO A DISCUSSION WE HAD A COUPLE WEEKS AGO ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN.

SO IN YOUR AGENDA MEMORANDUM, AND I APOLOGIZE, IT WAS A VERY LONG ONE, BUT WE'RE TACKLING A LOT OF DIFFERENT TOPICS IN THIS ONE.

SO I PROVIDED THE DISTRICT PURPOSE AND SOME OF THE BACKGROUND OF HOW THIS OVERLAY WAS CREATED.

SO UNLIKE THE D DOWNTOWN, THIS IS AN OVERLAY DISTRICT.

IT'S NOT THE ZONING DISTRICT. SO WHAT YOU HAVE HERE, AND IT'S DEPICTED IN A COUPLE MAPS ON PAGE TWO OF YOUR AGENDA MEMORANDUM.

BUT THIS, THIS DISTRICT OVERLAYS A GEOGRAPHIC AREA THAT HAS UNDERLYING ZONING.

SO YOU HAVE MULTIPLE ZONING DISTRICTS WITHIN THIS OVERLAY.

MOST OF IT IS C1A, WHICH IS COMMERCIAL CORE. HOWEVER YOU HAVE OTHER PROPERTIES.

YOU HAVE SOME PUBLIC SERVICE ZONES, SOME R 312 WHICH IS MULTIFAMILY R3T12, WHICH IS MULTIFAMILY PLAN DEVELOPMENT AND SOME C TWO WHICH IS GENERAL COMMERCIAL.

SO ALL OF THOSE ZONING UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICTS ARE, YOU KNOW, THEN BLANKETED BY THIS OVERLAY DISTRICT.

HOWEVER, SECTION 58, 1133 OF THE OVERLAY DOES PROVIDE THAT THE PROVISIONS OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICT, WHEN IN CONFLICT, WOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE UNDERLYING ZONING REGULATIONS.

SO THE OVERLAY IS CONTROLLING WITH RESPECT TO THE A LOT OF ZONING REGULATIONS, INCLUDING USES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO I PROVIDED AS AN ATTACHMENT, I JUST GAVE YOU THE THE FULL CODE SECTION THAT IS THE OVERLAY DISTRICT.

SO YOU COULD SEE REFERENCE ALL THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT THERE, I DID THIS AGENDA MEMORANDUM IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THE REGULATIONS ARE PROVIDED IN THE AGENDA MEMORANDUM.

SO THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSED IN TERMS OF IMPORTANCE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

IT'S JUST AS YOU GO DOWN THROUGH THE CODE. SO THE FIRST TOPIC IN HERE IS THE FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH SPECIAL OVERLAY DISTRICT REGULATING PLAN WHEN THE OVERLAY WAS CREATED, THEY INCLUDED A REGULATING PLAN, WHICH KIND OF ACTS LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF A ZONING ZONING MAP FOR THE DISTRICT.

IT TALKS ABOUT THE USES ON ON THE DIFFERENT PARCELS.

SO THE OVERLAY SORRY, THE REGULATING PLAN I PROVIDED, YOU'LL SEE IT ON PAGES FOUR AND FIVE.

THE REASON WE TALK ABOUT THIS IS ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT WAS MENTIONED TWO WEEKS AGO, I BELIEVE, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS CHANGED RECENTLY IS THE DESIGNATION OF THE FOURTH AND FOURTH PROPERTY.

SO IT'S FOURTH STREET AND FOURTH AVENUE SOUTH KNOWN AS THE FOURTH AND FOURTH PROPERTY, ORIGINALLY ON THE REGULATING PLAN WHEN THE DISTRICT WAS CREATED.

AND YOU CAN SEE THIS ON PAGE FOUR OF YOUR AGENDA MEMORANDUM. ORIGINALLY THAT PROPERTY WAS HAD A G ON IT, SO IT WAS DESIGNATED AS A GARAGE LOCATION IN THE REGULATING PLAN THAT WAS AMENDED BY CITY COUNCIL IN 2021. SO ORDINANCE 2021 14750 REMOVED THE GARAGE DESIGNATION FROM THAT PROPERTY.

SO WHAT YOU SEE ON PAGE FIVE OF YOUR AGENDA MEMORANDUM IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S CURRENTLY IN YOUR CODE.

YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT G DESIGNATION HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THAT PROPERTY.

A LITTLE HISTORY TO THAT PROPERTY THAT WAS, IT'S HAD THERE WAS A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS APPROVED FOR THE PROPERTY THAT PLANNED DEVELOPMENT HAS EXPIRED.

SO THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT EXPIRED. WE NOTIFIED THE PROPERTY OWNER ON AUGUST 28TH OF 2026 THAT THAT PLAN DEVELOPMENT HAD EXPIRED.

AND IT REVERTS BACK TO THE ZONING THAT WAS THERE BEFORE, WHICH IN THIS CASE IS R3 12.

SO THERE IS CURRENTLY A MULTI FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DESIGNATION ON THAT PROPERTY.

SO UNDERLYING ZONING OF R3 12 WITHIN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT, SO SUBJECT TO THE OVERLAY PROVISIONS AND THEN DOES NOT HAVE A GARAGE DESIGNATION ON THE PROPERTY. SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK.

[02:00:02]

WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER, AND I THINK INTERESTED POTENTIAL BUYERS ON WHAT COULD BE DONE ON THAT PROPERTY.

AND IT'S A IT'S A COMPLEX PIECE OF PROPERTY TO TRY TO DEVELOP THAT PROPERTY IS ALSO ENCUMBERED.

THERE ARE A A LARGE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.

I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT IT'S IT'S A LARGE NUMBER OF SPACES.

AND WHEN I SAY THAT IT'S ENCUMBERED. WHAT I MEAN IS THAT A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THAT PARCEL HAVE UTILIZED THAT PARCEL TO PROVIDE THEIR REQUIRED PARKING. SO HOWEVER THAT LOT IS DEVELOPED, THAT PARCEL IS DEVELOPED.

WHOEVER DEVELOPS IT WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE A LARGE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES IN ADDITION TO WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE TO PUT ON THAT PARCEL.

AND WHEN THE TIME COMES, I CAN GIVE YOU THE EXACT NUMBER OF THOSE SPACES.

I JUST DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT NOW. SO THAT'S JUST A LITTLE FRAMEWORK ON THAT PARCEL. THE NEXT DO YOU WANT TO DO QUESTIONS ON EACH TOPIC OR JUST DO THE WHOLE PRESENTATION AND THEN TALK LATER? YEAH. I DON'T WANT TO LOSE. THERE'S A LOT IN HERE.

SO. YEAH. SO IF THERE'S ANY, ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE, THE REGULATING PLAN AND THAT DESIGNATION. WHAT ELSE IN THE REGULATING PLAN.

THAT'S NOT LISTED. I KNOW YOU HAVE FOURTH AND FOURTH.

SO THAT'S THE ONLY THAT'S THE ONLY RECENT CHANGE TO THE REGULATING PLAN HAS BEEN THAT REMOVAL OF THE GARAGE DESIGNATION.

DID WE NOT HAVE THE SETBACKS DISCUSSION. IT WAS THE.

THAT'S NOT THE REGULATING PLAN. YES. YOU MEAN THE BUILD TO LINE.

THAT'S THE NEXT TOPIC IN THIS AS WELL. THAT'S NOT ON THE REGULATING PLAN.

THAT IS JUST THE THE FORM BASED CODE OF THE DISTRICT.

BUT THE ONLY RECENT CHANGE TO THE ACTUAL REGULATING PLAN ITSELF WAS TO REMOVE THE GARAGE DESIGNATION.

SO I DON'T I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S SO THERE'S NOTHING ELSE IN THE REGULATING PLAN THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.

THIS WAS THE TOPIC THAT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT COUNCIL WANTED TO DISCUSS.

I MEAN, WE CAN DISCUSS THE ENTIRE REGULATING PLAN.

WHEN I SAY THE REGULATING PLAN, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE MAP ITSELF, THE THE REGULATIONS WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN DETAIL AS WE GO THROUGH THIS.

I JUST MEAN THE PLAN ITSELF. AND, MADAM MAYOR, THE PERIOD AT WHICH THIS BECAME THE DISCUSSION WAS, I BELIEVE IT WAS MR. SCHULTZ, DURING THE DOWNTOWN HAD REQUESTED SPECIFIC INFORMATION OR WANTED TO TALK ABOUT FORTH AND FORTH.

AND WE SAID, WELL, WE WE'RE GETTING READY TO DO THAT FOR THE FIFTH AVENUE DISCUSSION, AND WE WOULD BRING IT HERE.

SO THAT'S WHY THAT ELEMENT WAS FOCUSED AT THE BEGINNING.

THANK YOU. THAT'S THAT'S WHY I CALLED THAT OUT SPECIFICALLY. SO OKAY, I'LL MOVE ON TO.

DO YOU HAVE ANY. QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY. SO WITH ALL OF THE PARKING ENCUMBRANCES ON THIS PROPERTY, IT MAKES IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR A POTENTIAL BUYER TO COME IN AND REDEVELOP IT, REDEVELOP IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ACCEPT ALL OF THE ENCUMBRANCES WITH THE PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY WILL BE TRICKY.

YES. AND HAVE HAVE WE HAVE, HAVE THERE BEEN? AND MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW THIS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T GET FAR ENOUGH ALONG, BUT HAVE THERE BEEN POTENTIAL BUYERS IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE OWNER AND SUBSEQUENTLY WITH YOU AS THE AS OUR PLANNER? AND HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THAT WITH POTENTIAL BUYERS WHO ULTIMATELY ENDED UP BACKING OUT BECAUSE OF ALL THE ENCUMBRANCES IN REFERENCE TO THE PARKING? I DON'T KNOW THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL. WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE DISCUSSIONS WITH VARIOUS PARTIES.

ESSENTIALLY JUST EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WHAT MY LIMITATIONS ARE ON THIS PROPERTY, AND WE PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATUS OF ANY OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT WE'VE PROVIDED THE INFORMATION TO MULTIPLE PARTIES, INCLUDING THE OWNER, THE CURRENT OWNER OF THE PROPERTY.

I'M JUST WONDERING OUT LOUD IF, IF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY HAS ANY POTENTIAL FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PARKING WITH ALL OF THE PARKING ENCUMBRANCES THAT ARE NOW TIED TO IT.

IT'LL BE TIGHT. IT'LL BE LIMITED. AND IS THAT SOMETHING? OBVIOUSLY WE BACKGROUND. THERE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THREE PARKING GARAGES BACK WHEN WE WERE DOING THE PARKING GARAGES.

WE DID TWO. WE BUILT TWO. WE BUILT TWO. WE DIDN'T BUILD THIS ONE.

THE COUNCIL AT THAT POINT IN TIME DECIDED THAT THEY DID NOT, THEY WERE NOT GOING TO GO FORWARD WITH BUILDING THIS ONE. WELL, WE DON'T OWN THIS PROPERTY. THIS IS PRIVATELY OWNED PROPERTY.

SO THIS WAS RECOGNIZED AS A LOCATION FOR A POTENTIAL GARAGE, BUT WE NEVER ACTUALLY PURCHASED IT.

CORRECT. THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS APPROVED WAS NOT JUST FOR A PARKING GARAGE.

IT WAS A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT THAT ALLOWED MULTIPLE USES.

[02:05:02]

THAT WAS 2021. IT WAS THE THE REGULATING PLAN WAS AMENDED IN 2021 TO REMOVE THE DESIGNATION.

THE WALKING. I MEAN, I'VE GONE WITH MEG ABOUT 40% DONE NOW GOING UP AND DOWN.

FIFTH MEETING WITH THE SHOP OWNERS AND IN THE PEOPLE FROM THE BID.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A STRONG FEELING ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN ON FIFTH THAT THERE'S JUST SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH PARKING.

AND I KNOW WE'D HAVE TO PURCHASE THE LAND FROM THE PRIVATE OWNER IF WE COULD DO THAT AND THEN DO SOMETHING.

BUT WE'D HAVE TO HAVE AN APPETITE UP HERE FROM FROM US FOLKS.

BUT HAVING GONE GONE DOWN ON FIFTH NOW, THEY, THEY RAISED SOME REALLY, REALLY VALID POINTS.

AND I WOULD HOPE MAYBE WE COULD REVISIT THAT SOMETIME SOON.

THANK YOU. WELL, I ONLY HAVE 15 MONTHS LEFT, SO PLEASE CONSIDER IT AFTER I LEAVE.

AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY. THIS ROOM WAS PACKED AND THERE WAS OVERFLOW FROM THE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THIS THERE WAS A DEAL MADE DURING THE SUMMER. NOBODY KNEW ABOUT. AND BASICALLY IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND THE COMMUNITY, THE RESIDENTS SAID, NO, IT IT WAS A SAFETY ISSUE.

IT WAS A COMMERCIAL IMPACT UPON RESIDENTIAL ISSUE AND IT WAS YOU CAN LOOK AT THE MINUTES, DRUNKEN BRAWLS MISBEHAVIOR.

AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE REGULATING PLAN, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN OLD NAPLES, IN THAT SURROUNDING AREA AND RIGHT NEXT TO THAT PROPERTY WERE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COMMERCIAL UPON RESIDENTIAL.

IT WAS ALSO PUT IN THE PLAN FOR A REASON. ONE OF THE BIGGEST DEVELOPERS THAT WAS DEVELOPING FIFTH AVENUE ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY AND THEY STRATEGICALLY HAD PLANNED THAT OUT. SO BEST MADE PLANS. WE HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY NOW, WHICH WE SHOULD TAKE NOTE.

AND IN SOME POLICY IT SHOULD SAY WE NEVER, EVER LET A DEVELOPER TAKE PARKING FROM ANOTHER PARCEL TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR THEM OR FOR THEIR DEVELOPMENT.

WHEN WE HAD GARAGES BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE LEARNED FROM THAT IT WASN'T VERY GOOD PLANNING AND ALSO VALET. WE STILL HAVE VALET ATTACHED TO THAT.

I THINK WE AS THIS BODY APPROVED IT. MAYBE NOT YOU, BUT JUST IN SINCE 20 FOR A RESTAURANT TO USE SPACES IN THAT ALREADY. IMPACTED LOT FOR VALET.

SO I WILL ALSO GIVE THE ONLY OTHER PIECE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE ABOUT IT IS THAT OUR FORMER CHAIRMAN OF DRB CAME FORWARD AND TALKED TO ME ABOUT A POTENTIAL PROJECT THERE, AND IT SOUNDED LIKE HE HAD RESOLVED THE PARKING FOR THAT WAS ALREADY ENCUMBERED AND TRYING TO PUT RESIDENTIAL THERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT. YEAH. SO I DO, JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, COUNCILMAN BARTON, I, I KNOW OF THAT ONE. IT SOUNDED GOOD. EVEN TRIED TO DO AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR LOCAL EMPLOYEES OR FIRE OR SCHOOL. THAT DIDN'T WORK. DO YOU REMEMBER? I THINK, AND I'M FAMILIAR, I, THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD AS WELL THAT DID THAT PROPOSAL.

AGAIN, THIS WAS A LONG TIME AGO, SO IT MAY HAVE CHANGED. AND I'M NOT SURE IF WE SAW THE SAME, BUT IT HAD A KIND OF A PARKING GARAGE ELEMENT AND THEN IT WAS LINED, IT WAS LINER BUILDINGS OF RESIDENTIAL UNITS, KIND OF TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.

SO THAT WHAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE SITE WAS LINE OR BUILDINGS OF TOWNHOUSES.

THAT DID REQUIRE SOME ALLEVIATION FROM SOME OF THE REGULATIONS IN THE CODE.

I MEAN, I THINK ANYTHING THAT ANY DEVELOPMENT THAT GOES ON THIS PARCEL, I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND SOMETHING THAT IS 100% CODE COMPLIANT.

THERE'S JUST A LOT OF LIMITATIONS ON THIS PARCEL.

[02:10:02]

IT WAS A RESIDENTIAL TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT WITH PARKING TO PROVIDE PARKING NOT ONLY FOR THEIR USES, BUT ALSO THE, THE ENCUMBRANCES. WELL AS I'VE SPOKEN TO THE CITY ATTORNEY IT'S A DISAPPOINTMENT THAT THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY HAS NOW BEEN PURCHASED.

AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT? IS A DILEMMA. AND WE CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, HOPED THAT IT WOULDN'T ALWAYS JUST BE A SURFACE PARKING LOT, BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW TO TURN AROUND A BAD SITUATION AND MAKE IT RIGHT. BUT I THOUGHT THOSE THE ONE DEVELOPMENT WITH THE TOWNHOUSES SURROUNDING AND THE PARKING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CODE REGULATIONS WERE. THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED OR COMPROMISED, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN TALK ABOUT IN ANOTHER TIME.

AND YES, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS YOUR TENURE PHILOSOPHICALLY, I LOOK AT THINGS MUCH DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHERS AND THAT'S FAIR.

WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS, BUT WITHOUT A THRIVING BUSINESS DISTRICT, I DON'T THINK A CITY CAN CAN PROVIDE WHAT THEY NEED FOR THE ENTIRE RESIDENT RESIDENT POPULATION OF THE CITY.

AND SO THE COMMENTS AND I, I'VE BEEN GOING WITH MEG DOWN ON FIFTH AND SPEAKING WITH THE SHOP OWNERS, THE RENTS ARE ESCALATING TO ABSURD LEVELS. ONE ONE SHOP $50,000 A MONTH AND THEY HAVE TO PAY THAT DURING THE SUMMER WHEN THERE IS VERY LITTLE TRAFFIC, IF ANY, THEY CONTEND. AND I BELIEVE ACCURATELY THAT THE LACK OF PARKING IS DETRIMENTAL TO THEIR BUSINESSES. AND THESE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY HERE IN THE CITY AND THEY ARE PART OF THE TAX BASE AND WITHOUT A THRIVING BUSINESS DISTRICT ON FIFTH AND THEN ON THIRD AND OTHER LOCATIONS IN TOWN, WE NEED TO MAKE LIFE A LITTLE EASIER FOR THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THOSE BUSINESSES, BECAUSE TO TRY TO COVER THEIR NUT FROM WHAT THE RENT IS, WHAT THEIR PRODUCT IS, IT'S A WHOLE LOT OF TACOS YOU GOT TO SEND.

IF YOU'RE A RESTAURANT, YOU GOT TO YOU BETTER BE ABLE TO SELL A LOT OF TACOS IN THE CLOTHING.

IT'S JUST, IT ALMOST IS A LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS.

AND I RECOGNIZED THAT THE IMMEDIATE FOLKS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD DON'T LIKE IT AND DIDN'T LIKE IT BACK AT THAT TIME.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE VOCAL ORGANIZATIONS IN THE CITY, AS I'VE SAID BEFORE.

THEIR VIEWS ARE WELL KNOWN AND THEY'RE NOT SHY AND THEY GET WHATEVER THEY WANT.

FOR THE MOST PART. BUT WE NEED TO START FACTORING IN THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT PAY THE TAXES AND PAY THE FREIGHT WERE FOLKS WHO FLY IN FROM OUT OF TOWN, RIGHTFULLY OR WRONG. THEY COME AND THEY GET OFF THEIR PLANES.

AND THE FIFTH AVENUE IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF WHAT THEY DO.

AND IT'S THERE'S CHANGES GOING ON THERE NOW. THERE'S BECOMING MORE UPSCALE SHOPS AND STORES, AND IT'S, IT'S CHANGING ON ITS OWN BY MARKET DYNAMICS.

BUT AS A RESULT OF THAT, I BELIEVE WE NEED TO FACTOR.

WHAT DO THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THE BILLS, WHAT DO THEY WANT? AND I'LL BE AN ADVOCATE FOR THOSE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, ON THE CRA AND THE BID, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE LISTEN TO THEM OR KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THEIR PROBLEMS. AND SO I RECOGNIZE YOU.

YOUR TENURE HERE IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE 18 MONTHS, TWO YEARS, WHATEVER IT IS.

AND YOU'VE BEEN A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR YOUR POSITIONS FOR AS LONG AS YOU'VE BEEN AROUND AND AN EFFECTIVE ADVOCATE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, TIMES ARE MOVING NAPLES BECOMING GOING BACK TO A LITTLE FISHING TOWN OF LITTLE BURGS.

WE HAVE TO. WE HAVE TO GROW WITH THE TIMES. AND MY JUDGMENT FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS WE NEED TO SUPPORT THEM, NOT WITH NECESSARILY HANDOUTS BY ANY STRETCH, BUT GIVE THEM THE TOOLS TO TO COMPETE WITH MERCATO IN OTHER PLACES THAT ARE TAKING BUSINESS. AND WE WANT TO DO THE BEST WE CAN TO HELP THE CITY AND THE BUSINESSES IN THE CITY.

OR I'M NOT SURE WHAT OUR FUTURE IS WITHOUT THE TAX BASE THERE.

AND DOES THIS RELY ON MANY OF THE OWNERS OF THE BUILDINGS FOR JACKING THE RENTS, PERHAPS MORE THAN WHAT WE WOULD PERCEIVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, ADVANTAGEOUS FOR WHAT IS NECESSARY.

BUT THESE CONVERSATIONS NEED TO BE HAD. AND I'D BE WILLING TO WORK WITH, WITH THE BID AND WITH THE CRA TO, TO HAVE DIALOG AND COMMITTEES TO, WITH THE SHOP OWNERS AND THE BUSINESSES, THE FOLKS THAT OWN THE REAL ESTATE THERE.

WE HAVE TO FIND SOME COMMON GROUND. AND I'LL, I'LL SPEND SOME TIME TO DO THAT AND BELIEVE AGAIN THAT A BUSINESS,

[02:15:03]

AGAIN, I THINK THAT HAS ITS OWN OWN DYNAMIC, BUT I DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN HERE TO GET INTO PEOPLE'S TERMS OF OFFICE HERE AND SUCH, BUT YOUR POINTS ARE MADE VERY VALID. THAT AT THAT POINT IN TIME THINGS ARE DIFFERENT.

AND NOW THINGS. THERE'S A NEW COUNCIL AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW COUNCIL IN FOUR YEARS.

AND SOME PEOPLE WILL BE HERE, SOME PEOPLE WON'T.

BUT I HAVE HAD MY EYES OPENED BY GOING DOWN ON FIFTH IN, IN TALKING WITH THE PEOPLE THAT RUN BUSINESSES THERE AND I DON'T COUNCILMAN WHY ARE YOU HERE? WHY ARE YOU HERE? DO YOU MEAN, WHY AM I HERE? HOW CAN I DO MY JOB WELL? OTHER PEOPLE DIDN'T DO THAT. WELL, EVERYBODY'S GOT THEIR OWN STYLE IN THE WAY THEY WORK.

I'M A RELATIONSHIP GUY AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, SO I WANT TO WORK WITH THE BUSINESS, THE BUSINESS DISTRICTS IN THE BID, THE BUSINESS, OR THE BUSINESSES WITHIN THE BID TO, TO GIVE THEM THE TOOLS THAT THEY NEED.

AND IF WE NEED TO HAVE BETTER AND MORE EFFICIENT DIALOG, I'M ALL FOR IT.

SO THANK YOU. I AGREE. I RESPECT YOUR OPINION.

AND IN NO WAY AM I SAYING THAT I'M NOT PRO-BUSINESS.

THIS DISTRICT HAS A TAX INCREMENT FINANCING THAT COMES INTO FINANCIALLY.

IT ALSO HAS A BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT. AND WE ARE AT A POINT AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SUCCESS THAT WE HAVE HAD AND MAKING SURE THAT IT CONTINUES TO THRIVE. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING THAT THIS DISTRICT SHOULD NOT BE PAID ATTENTION TO FROM A BUSINESS POINT OF VIEW.

BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE BALANCE. AND TO HEAR PEOPLE SAY, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO SPECIAL EVENTS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD WILL BE SACRIFICED, OR THAT WE ARE GOING TO BRING MORE COMMERCIAL INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD AREA.

AND THEY'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO GET USED TO IT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE TREND IN THE TIMES.

THAT'S WHERE THESE PEOPLE UP HERE HAVE TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS, AND BEING ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE SURE THAT A THRIVING AREA STAYS THRIVING, YET DOESN'T RUIN THE TAX BASE AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS SURROUNDING IT.

SO IT'S A DELICATE BALANCE THAT YOU CAN'T SACRIFICE ONE FOR THE OTHER.

AND THAT'S ALL I'VE EVER SAID IS WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

PARKING HAS BEEN, AND AS YOU CAN TELL FROM THIS, HOW MANY PAGES, ERICA 15 IS THE KEY TO DEVELOPMENT. SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR PARKING, WHAT WE'VE DONE RIGHT, WRONG, WHATEVER DOESN'T MATTER, BUT WHERE WE ARE NOW AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS IT SO THAT IT WE CAN HAVE PARKING FOR THE NEEDS OF THESE BUSINESSES AND THAT WE DON'T HINDER FUTURE REDEVELOPMENT.

SO I'M ON THE SAME PAGE. I JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPASSION FOR THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND I'M NOT TRYING TO DIMINISH THE CONCERNS THEY HAVE.

THEY'RE VERY LEGITIMATE BY ANY STRETCH. I BELIEVE EARLIER CONVERSATIONS, YOU KNOW, MONTHS AGO COUNCILMAN BARTON, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGN DISTRICT PARKING THERE, AND HE ELOQUENTLY MADE A VERY VALID POINT THAT WE DON'T REALLY WANT, THAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO WALK, WE WANT PEOPLE FOOT TRAFFIC TO DRIVE THINGS.

AND THAT WAS A VERY I WAS OF A WHOLE DIFFERENT MINDSET UP UNTIL HIS, YOUR EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT THE VISION THAT IS FOR THAT AREA. BUT THE BID IS NOT THAT DYNAMIC.

AND WE AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THROW A NEIGHBORHOOD UNDER THE BUS BY ANY STRETCH, BUT THERE MIGHT BE A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER TO ENHANCE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR BUSINESSES ON FIFTH TO TO HAVE A BETTER OPPORTUNITY TO THRIVE.

AND YOUR POINTS ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TAXATION THINGS THAT THAT GO WITH THERE.

BUT AS THE NEW CHAIR, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN DO MY JOB IF I DON'T GO TALK TO THESE FOLKS THAT ARE ON, ON THE AVENUE. ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING IT.

I'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I KNOW HOW TO WORK.

ABSOLUTELY. AND SO I'M NOT TRYING TO HAVE CONFLICT WITH YOU AT ALL BY ANY STRETCH, BUT.

RIGHT. WELL, THIS IS THE DIALOG WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT.

WE CAN'T HAVE ANY OTHER PLACE. SO THANK YOU. AND I WOULD HOPE THAT WE COULD ADDRESS THAT AS I GET MORE MY SEA LEGS UNDER ME WITH STUFF WITH THE SHOP OWNERS.

[02:20:01]

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WITH THAT ANYTHING ABOUT THE FOURTH AND FORTH OR PARKING TO THAT? VICE MAYOR. THANK YOU. YEAH. NOT TO ADD TO THAT.

IT'S JUST VERY COMPLICATED WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BALANCE DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S INTERESTS AND RIGHTS.

I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE ZONING FOR THIS PROPERTY.

IF AND PRESUMABLY WHOEVER THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS AT THE TIME AGREED TO ALL THESE ENCUMBRANCES FOR PARKING.

AND THEN IF SOMEBODY BOUGHT IT AFTERWARDS, THEY KNEW THOSE ENCUMBRANCES WERE THERE.

AND PRESUMABLY THAT FACTORED INTO WHATEVER PRICE THEY WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR, FOR THE PROPERTY.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY DIDN'T KNOW. BUT A QUESTION.

WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO DO UNDERGROUND PARKING IN THAT LOCATION? AND THAT WOULD SATISFY THEIR PARKING ENCUMBRANCES AS PART OF SOME SORT OF MIXED DEVELOPMENT.

YOU'RE ASKING ME THAT? OUR ZONING EXPERT THERE.

SURE. THERE ARE MULTIPLE MULTIPLE OPTIONS THEY COULD LOOK AT.

SO WE DO HAVE PROPERTY WITHIN THE OVERLAY THAT DOES HAVE UNDERGROUND PARKING.

THE FIFTH AND FIFTH PROPERTY HAS UNDERGROUND PARKING.

SO DOES. 505. THE WARWICK BUILDING. SO THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF UNDERGROUND PARKING.

THE TRICKY PART IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY IS THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ALLOCATE COMMERCIAL SPACES FROM THE GARAGE.

YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ALLOCATE RESIDENTIAL SPACES. SO PARKING IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE DRIVING FACTOR OF HOW YOU CAN DEVELOP THIS PROPERTY.

NOW THOSE THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THAT LOT IS THE THE ENCUMBRANCE FOR PARKING IS TIED TO SO MANY DIFFERENT BUILDINGS THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE PHYSICALLY PROVIDE THE SPACES ON THAT SITE. IT'S GOING TO BE A GARAGE AT SOME POINT, WHETHER IT'S UNDERGROUND AND AN ELEMENT IS ABOVE GROUND, OR YOU CAN'T PROVIDE THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED SPACES IN A SURFACE LOT AND DEVELOP ANYTHING ON THAT SITE.

SO IT'S EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO BE STRUCTURED IN SOME WAY TO PROVIDE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE, AND ALSO IF THEY ARE ABLE TO FIT, YOU KNOW, TOWNHOUSES OR SOMETHING ELSE ON THERE, THEY HAVE TO PARK THAT AS WELL.

YEAH. SO IT'S NOT JUST PROVIDING THE PARKING FOR THE ENCUMBRANCES, IT'S ALSO PROVIDING THE PARKING FOR WHATEVER USE IS DEVELOPED.

SO YOU ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT SOME SORT OF STRUCTURE OF PARKING.

YEAH. SO IT'D BE REALLY TRICKY TO SOLVE THAT EQUATION.

IT WILL BE. THAT'S WHY I SAID YOU, YOU LIKELY WILL BE LOOKING AT SOME SORT OF RELIEF FROM ONE OR MORE OF THE ZONING REGULATIONS, DEPENDING ON THE PROPOSAL THAT IS BROUGHT FOR YOU.

SETBACKS. SOMETHING SOMETHING WILL HAVE TO GIVE TO MAKE THAT BUILDABLE.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO SOLVE SOME PROPERTY OWNER'S DILEMMA.

WE WOULD JUST WAIT AND SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH.

YEP. AND I, LIKE I SAID, THE ONLY KIND OF DESIGN I'VE TALKED, I'VE HEARD WAS THE ONE THAT THE MAYOR MENTIONED AS WELL.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OTHER ACTUAL PROPOSALS. IT'S JUST BEEN CONVERSATIONS OF WHAT THE LIMITATIONS ARE.

ALL RIGHT. SO THANK YOU. AND I'LL SAY I'M SORRY TO THAT.

UNDERGROUND PARKING HAS BEEN LOOKED AT. BUT WE NEED TO I THINK IT'S COMING BACK TO US OR AT SOME POINT ON THE LIST.

WELL RIGHT. BECAUSE YES, IT WILL ADDRESS CERTAIN AREAS, BUT IT ALSO WILL ENCOURAGE MORE DENSITY AND INTENSITY OF DEVELOPMENT. SO I THINK THAT'S A, IT'S, IT'S POLICY THAT NEEDS TO BE CAREFULLY PUT TOGETHER FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, BUT ALSO FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL POINT OF VIEW ON HOW THEY EXCAVATE AND DE-WATER.

FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL POINT OF VIEW. SO I, THAT'S WHY I WAS BEING A LITTLE HESITANT IN MY ANSWER IS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU ARE HAVING THIS EXACT DISCUSSION IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS, SO I WANTED TO LEAVE THAT OPEN. YEAH. SO I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING.

SO THAT'S SET TO COME BEFORE YOU. MR. BECKMAN HAS ARRANGED FOR AN EXPERT IN HYDRAULICS ETC.

TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS RELATED TO THAT IN NOVEMBER.

AND THEN AS FAR AS I ACTUALLY HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO GET A LITTLE CLARITY AS WELL, BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE SINCE THAT'S WHAT THIS WAS FOR.

MAYOR WHEN YOU SAID ABOUT POLICY AND I WANT TO.

SO ERIC, I WANT YOU TO HELP ME, WHETHER IT'S CODE OR POLICY.

AND THE REASON I SAY THAT, AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I WANT TO UNDERSTAND, CAN ANYTHING BE APPROVED THAT WOULD NOW PUT IT ON ANOTHER LOT WITHOUT COMING TO COUNCIL? I DON'T KNOW HOW THESE ONES WERE DONE, BUT CASE IN POINT WAS THE THIRD AVENUE LOCATION WHERE THEY HAD TO PARK FIVE SPACES.

IT WAS WITHIN 100 YARDS AND THEY OWNED A PROPERTY DOWN SOMEWHERE OFF OF TWO STREET AND A HALF OVERRIDE.

AND THEY COULD AND IT WAS MEASURABLE. AND IT CAME TO COUNCIL AS A CONDITIONAL USE OR WHATEVER FOR PARKING ALLOCATION.

[02:25:06]

DID IT GET ENCUMBERED IN A SIMILAR FASHION? AND IT WOULD ALWAYS BE THAT WAY.

YES. AND SO OKAY, SO I SAY THAT BECAUSE I WANT THE POLICY AND MAKING SURE EVERYONE ON THE DAIS KNOWS THAT IT'S ABOUT STAYING COMMITTED TO AS SOON AS YOU LEATHER TETHERED TO A PROPERTY, WHILE THEY MAY HAVE OWNED IT WHEN THEY DID IT, AS SOON AS THEY SELL OFF THAT PIECE, NOW IT'S STILL TETHERED TO THERE. SO I JUST SAY THAT BECAUSE I WANT TO GET THAT FULL CIRCLE FOR ALL OF OUR FULL RECOGNITION.

THAT'S ALL. SO THANK YOU. GOOD CLARIFICATION. YES, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE WE'LL HAVE A BROADER PARKING DISCUSSION FURTHER DOWN IN HERE, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THE TRICKS OF, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE WHEN YOU LOOK AT VACANT LOTS TO SOLVE PARKING PROBLEMS, YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT REQUIRES THAT THEY ALWAYS REMAIN VACANT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S JUST NOT NOT ALWAYS A GOOD THING TO RELY ON BECAUSE INEVITABLY WE FIND OURSELVES IN THE SITUATION WE'RE IN NOW, WHERE SOMEONE OWNS IT AND THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE VACANT LOT.

AND NOW YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THAT. SO THE, PROPERTY I WAS ON THE A B WHEN GARY THE PROPERTY YOU MENTIONED THE ISSUE IS WE ADDRESSED IT AT THAT TIME WAS THE BUSINESS OWNER FROM THE RESTAURANT THAT WAS HAVING HIS BUSINESS WITH THE HOTEL.

HE FAILED TO NEGOTIATE ANY PARKING SPACES FOR HIMSELF.

AND AS PART OF THAT PARCEL, THEY HAD TO GO PARK OVER BECAUSE IT WAS TIED TO LIKE AN ART GALLERY, I BELIEVE FURTHER ON DOWN THE ROAD. AND I TALKED WITH HIS ATTORNEY AND I SAID, SO SIR, YOUR YOUR CLIENT DIDN'T EVEN TALK TO THE MANAGEMENT ABOUT THE PARKING FOR THIS RESTAURANT.

AND NOW YOU WANT US TO GO ON, YOU KNOW, REBUILD THE WHEEL.

AND OUR JOB IS AND THE PAB AT THAT TIME WASN'T TO MAKE YOUR BUSINESS SUCCESSFUL.

IF YOU DIDN'T FACTOR THAT IN, THAT MAY BE ON YOU.

SO THAT WAS A SPECIFIC ISSUE ON THE PAB DURING MY TENURE.

BUT THAT WAS THAT'S HOW THAT CAME ABOUT. SORRY.

AS WE TRY AND ACCOMMODATE SOMETIMES UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES HAPPEN.

YES, I AGREE. OKAY. FURTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. OKAY, WE'LL MOVE ON.

THE NEXT ITEM ON HERE IS WILL BE FAMILIAR AS WELL.

I THINK WE TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT A MOMENT AGO.

MAYOR. THIS IS THE BUILDING PLACEMENT. SO THIS IS THE NEXT SECTION IN THE OVERLAY IS 58-1134B WHICH IS BUILDING PLACEMENT WHICH TELLS YOU WHERE BUILDINGS WILL BE.

SO I INCLUDED SOME INFORMATION GENERAL INFORMATION IN HERE. THIS IS A FORM BASED CODE.

SO THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT TYPE OF ZONING THAN YOUR OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS THAT PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A CERTAIN THESE FRONT REAR SIDE SETBACKS AND A MAXIMUM LOT AREA.

AND THEN YOU DECIDE WHAT THAT BUILDING IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS. THIS IS A FORM BASED CODE.

AND THIS CODE, WE TELL YOU WHAT YOUR BUILDING IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. ESSENTIALLY, WE TELL YOU WHAT THE MASSING AND STRUCTURE OF YOUR BUILDING IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. SO IT SAYS THAT ON THE GROUND FLOOR, THE FIRST FLOOR WILL BE AT THE BUILD TO LINE.

SO THE FIRST, FIRST STORY OF YOUR BUILDING WILL BE RIGHT UP TO THAT PROPERTY LINE.

SO RATHER THAN A SETBACK, IT'S A BUILD TO. NOW THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS THAT YOU CAN HOLD WHAT WE CALL HOLD THE BUILD TO LINE.

IT CAN BE THE FACE OF YOUR BUILDING. IT CAN ALSO BE AN ARCADE OR A STREET WALL.

SO THERE ARE A COUPLE EXAMPLES ON FIFTH AVENUE.

NOW IF YOU LOOK WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE, THEY HAVE A LITTLE KIND OF COURTYARD FOR THEIR OUTDOOR DINING THE NEWEST BUILDING, I THINK THAT WAS JUST BUILT, THE COLSON BUILDING HAS MAYBE IS THE NAME OF THE RESTAURANT.

ANYWAY, YOU'LL NOTICE THEY HAVE OUTDOOR DINING ON THE GROUND FLOOR.

THEY HAVE COLUMNS. THAT'S WHAT WE CONSIDER AN ARCADE THAT HOLDS THE BUILD TO LINE.

SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE WHOLE FACE OF THE BUILDING, BUT SOMETHING HAS TO HOLD THAT BUILD TO LINE. THEN THE CODE SAYS THAT YOUR SECOND STORY WILL BE SET BACK A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM THE FIRST FROM THE FIRST STORY.

THE THIRD WILL BE SET BACK A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM THE SECOND STORY, GIVING YOU THAT LAYERED APPROACH. ALSO IT TALKS ABOUT THE PROJECTION ALLOWED FOR BALCONIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO IT ESSENTIALLY SAYS IT DESIGNS FOR YOU WHAT THAT STREETSCAPE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

SO WHEN YOU STAND AT ONE END OF FIFTH AND YOU LOOK DOWN, YOU YOUR EYE, THERE'S A PATTERN TO THE DEVELOPMENT THERE.

AND THAT'S FOR ALL THE REDEVELOPED BUILDINGS.

SO WE HAD A DISCUSSION, WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT AND THIS HAS GONE BOTH THROUGH THE COUNCIL, THE DRB, MULTIPLE DIFFERENT DISCUSSIONS ON WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE.

BECAUSE WHAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID IS YOU REALLY CAN'T JUST CHANGE ONE WITHOUT THE DOMINO EFFECT OF HOW WILL THAT AFFECT EVERYTHING ELSE? BECAUSE IF YOU ALLOW A FRONT SETBACK, THEN WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT SECOND STORY AND THE THIRD STORY? SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADDRESS ONE PIECE, YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT WHOLE FORM OF THAT BUILDING.

I THINK THE, THE CONVERSATION WHERE THIS REALLY CAME UP WAS WITH THE OUTDOOR DINING DISCUSSION.

AND WE HAVE ALL THIS OUTDOOR DINING ON PUBLIC.

HOW CAN WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PUT THE OUTDOOR DINING ON THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY IF WE ALLOWED THEM TO SET BACK? WOULD THAT SOLVE THE PROBLEM? TWO THINGS. ONE, YOU ALREADY CAN.

SO THE CODE DOES ALLOW YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, VAGINAS, YOU KNOW,

[02:30:01]

THEY HAVE A PRESENCE AT THE BUILD TO LINE, BUT THEN THEY HAVE THE OUTDOOR DINING BEHIND THAT.

SO YOU CAN USE WHAT'S IN THE CODE NOW TO DO THAT.

THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOMEONE DEVELOPING A BUILDING AND JUST OPTING TO GIVE UP ALL OF THAT COMMERCIAL SQUARE FOOTAGE BY BRINGING THEIR WHOLE BUILDING BACK.

THESE ARE VERY SMALL LOTS WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE AMOUNT OF SPACE THAT YOU HAVE, YOU'RE CONFINED ON ALL SIDES.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD THAT SOMEONE WOULD VOLUNTARILY SET THEIR BUILDING BACK.

BUT MAYBE THEY WOULD. SO WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION MULTIPLE TIMES.

MY RECOMMENDATION IS STILL, WE WOULD HAVE TO REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT THE ENTIRE BUILDING PLACEMENT SECTION AND THAT FORM TO SEE IF YOU CHANGE ONE THING. HOW THEN DO YOU ADDRESS THE OTHERS? BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'LL NOTICE ON FIFTH, YOU DON'T SEE BALCONIES PROJECTING BEYOND THE FACE OF THE BUILDING, LIKE YOU DO EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY, BECAUSE THAT WOULD VISUALLY CHANGE THE EFFECT.

IT'S VERY SPECIFIC ON THE TYPE OF BALCONY RAILING SO THAT THERE'S AN OPACITY.

VERY, IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC AND VERY INTENTIONAL CODE TO MAKE SURE THAT WHILE THE BUILDINGS HAVE THEIR ARCHITECTURAL UNIQUENESS, THERE IS A FORM, THERE'S A, THERE'S A STANDARDIZATION FOR THE STREETSCAPE.

SO THAT'S JUST HOW THAT CONVERSATION HAS GONE.

GONE. THAT'S SOMETHING IF WE DID OPT TO MOVE FORWARD, I WOULD RECOMMEND HIRING A CONSULTANT AND HAVING THEM LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU REALLY VISUALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. I CAN EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT THESE REGULATIONS ARE, BUT UNTIL YOU SEE, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE IF WE ALLOWED BUILDINGS TO SET, YOU KNOW, ARE WE THEN CREATING, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO DISRUPT THAT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN ON FIFTH? SO IT'S AN OPTION. IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN PURSUE.

IT WOULD REQUIRE A MUCH CLOSER LOOK THOUGH. IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A SIMPLE FIX.

IT'S NOT JUST CHANGING A COUPLE OF THE WORDS IN THE CODE.

SO WHEN WHEN WAS THAT CODE? THAT CODE WASN'T ALWAYS IN PLACE.

THE BUILD TWO LINE THAT HAS BEEN THERE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I DON'T I CAN LOOK TO SEE IF IT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THE OVERLAY, BUT I IT HAS BEEN THAT WAY FOR 20 YEARS. WHEN YOU SAY THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THE OVERLAY, IS THAT THE DIWANI PLAN OR IS THAT. SO THE OVERLAY WAS ADOPTED.

YEAH. SO WHEN THE OVERLAY WAS ADOPTED IN 1994 WAS THE WHEN THE OVERLAY WAS CREATED AND THAT WAS. YES, THAT WAS A PRODUCT OF THE DIWANI PLAN.

SO WAS THAT AN INTERPRETATION THAT THEY SHOULD BUILD TWO LINE? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT I RECALL. IF YOU CAN HELP ME OUT OR WE CAN DO SOME RESEARCH ON IT.

THE ARE WE INTERPRETING THAT THE BUILD TO LINE IT? I MEAN, IT SAYS FIRST STORY FACADE SHALL HAVE NO FRONT SETBACK.

WAS THAT IN CONFLICT WITH ANOTHER OVERLAY OR CODE? WELL, I MEAN, THE UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICTS ALL REQUIRE A SETBACK.

SO C1A IF YOU JUST LOOK AT C1A ON ITS OWN, IT DOES REQUIRE A FRONT SETBACK.

AND SAME WITH PUBLIC SERVICE AND THE OTHER UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICTS.

BUT THE OVERLAY SAYS THERE SHALL BE NO FRONT SETBACK.

AND THE AND THEN THERE'S THAT SECTION THAT SAYS THE OVERLAY PROCEEDS.

SO AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE GOOD CHANGES IF CHANGES ARE NEEDED.

YES. SO IF THE OVERLAY IS NO LONGER NEEDED THEN IT GOES BACK TO C1A WHERE.

SO YEAH, IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE TWO OF THE STAFF REPORT THE SECOND DIAGRAM SHOWS ALL OF THE UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICTS.

SO YOU HAVE C1A PUBLIC SERVICE PLAN DEVELOPMENT R 312.

YOU HAVE ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICTS IN THAT OVERLAY.

SO YES IF THE OVERLAY WENT AWAY YOU WOULD JUST REVERT BACK TO ALL OF THE YOU WOULD ESSENTIALLY RENDER EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY AS A NON-CONFORMING.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK ANYWAY. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS TO THE FUTURE OF THAT BUILDING.

AS NON-CONFORMING, BUT NON-CONFORMING ALLOWS YOU TO REPAIR AND MAINTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE.

BUT YOU CANNOT EXPAND. YOU CANNOT REPLACE, YOU CANNOT ESSENTIALLY, IF YOU ARE NON-CONFORMING, YOU CAN MAINTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT YOU. AND THEN ALSO A NON-CONFORMING BUILDING IF IT CEASES FOR A YEAR.

THEN YOU START OVER. THEN. THEN YOUR NONCONFORMING STATUS GOES AWAY.

SO YOU WOULD BE CREATING NONCONFORMITIES BOTH PHYSICALLY AND USES.

[02:35:01]

THE PARKING IS DIFFERENT. EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT.

QUESTION HERE THOUGH IS IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT WITH HAVING THE OVERLAY ELIMINATE THE FRONT SETBACK? I MEAN, IS THERE HAS THAT CREATED AN ISSUE ON FIFTH AVENUE FROM A STANDPOINT OF OF THE REDEVELOPMENT THAT'S TAKING PLACE? IS THERE IS THERE IS THERE AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF MAKING THAT CHANGE? YES. THAT I'M UNAWARE OF. I'M ASKING THIS TAKING IT AWAY.

YEAH. LIKE HOW IT'S CURRENTLY STRUCTURED WITH THE OVERLAY.

IT ALLOWS THEM IT ELIMINATES THAT SETBACK ON THE FRONT, RIGHT? IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BUILD IT TO THAT FRONT. YEAH.

OKAY. IS THERE, HAS THERE HAS THAT CREATED AN ISSUE? IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? IS THAT A YES THERE IS.

OKAY. AND I'LL SEE WHAT I MEAN. WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION.

SALES WANTED TO DO OUTDOOR DINING ON THE FRONT OF THEIR BUILDING.

SO WE ALLOWED THEM TO, OR WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO DO THE FEW SEATINGS OUT FRONT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SPACE IN THE FRONT.

AND THEN THE VERY POPULAR FROZEN YOGURT PLACE, WHICH ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU PUT IN THAT MIXED USE NEEDED OUTDOOR DINING. SO WE ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE SPACE ON THE SIDEWALK ON THE RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH CAUSED A CONGESTION ISSUE WITH THE WALKING AND THE SAFETY ON THE SIDEWALK.

ALL RIGHT. SO BUT THE PROBLEM HERE IS, IS NOT THE PROBLEM IS BEING CREATED BY US GIVING AWAY OUR PUBLIC LAND FOR THEIR, THEIR OUTDOOR DINING WHEN IN FACT, IF CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY STRUCTURED, THE WITH THE OVERLAY, PEOPLE CAN. IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO REDEVELOP A BUILDING, THEY CAN HAVE OUTDOOR DINING WITHIN THE ENVELOPE OF THEIR BUILDING BECAUSE THEY CAN.

THEY CAN HAVE COLUMNS OR WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, A ARCADE.

ARCADE. THEY CAN THEY CAN HAVE THAT OUTDOOR DINING, IF THAT'S A PRIORITY.

YES. SO WE'RE NOT ELIMINATING THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE OUTDOOR DINING CORRECT NOW.

BUT WE'VE CREATED THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE HERE IS THAT WE'VE ALLOWED THOSE BUILDINGS THAT DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR OUTDOOR DINING BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN BUILT, BUT THEY WANT TO HAVE OUTDOOR DINING AND WE'RE GIVING THEM A PUBLIC SPACE. SO MAYBE THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE IS US GIVING OUR GIVING AWAY OUR SIDEWALK FOR OUTDOOR DINING OR, OR YOU HAVE A DEVELOPER AND IT GOES FOR RESIDENTIAL THAT WANTS TO BUILD LOT LINE TO LOT LINE, MAXIMIZE THEIR SPACE. AND THEN WE TRY AND MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS FOR SOMEBODY.

AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S THAT THAT IS THE DEVELOPER'S PREROGATIVE IF THEY CHOOSE TO MAXIMIZE THEIR BUILDING BY BUILDING IT TO THAT, THAT, THAT LINE AND NOT CREATING ANY OUTDOOR DINING, IF OUTDOOR DINING WAS A PRIORITY FOR THEM, THEY NEED TO CREATE IT WITHIN THEIR WITHIN THEIR DEVELOPMENT, WITHIN THEIR.

YEAH. WHERE THIS PROPERTY, WHERE THIS BECOMES A PROBLEM IS.

SO YOU HAVE THE TWO MOST RECENT BUILDINGS. YOU HAVE THE COULSON BUILDING, AND THEN YOU HAVE 472 BUILDING.

BOTH OF THOSE DEVELOPERS ACKNOWLEDGED UP FRONT BEFORE BUILDING THAT THEY WANTED TO HAVE RESTAURANTS ON THE GROUND FLOOR WITH OUTDOOR DINING.

WHERE WE RUN INTO THE ISSUE IS NOT EVERY BUILDING ON FIFTH AVE WAS DEVELOPED TO BE A RESTAURANT ON THE GROUND FLOOR.

THEY WERE DEVELOPED TO BE RETAIL, AND THAT'S THE IDEA. YOU WANT THAT MIX OF USES.

HOWEVER, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, EVERY SINGLE FIRST STOREY OF EVERY SINGLE BUILDING SEEMS TO BE BECOMING A RESTAURANT.

YES. AND SO THAT AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS TO BE A RESTAURANT, THOSE DEVELOPERS SHOULD HAVE HAD ENOUGH VISION TO SAY, HEY, I WANT TO HAVE OUTDOOR DINING AND I NEED TO BUILD THIS BUILDING IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO HAVE OUTDOOR DINING. IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY THOUGHT THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE A THING, NOW, HAS IT BECOME A THING? YEAH, SURE.

AND DID THEY MAKE A POOR CHOICE AT THAT POINT IN TIME? IF EVENTUALLY THAT BUILDING NEEDED TO HAVE OUTDOOR DINING.

THEY SHOULD HAVE. THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT AHEAD. THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD SOME TYPE OF VISION. SAY, OUTDOOR DINING IS NOT A RIGHT. THAT'S CORRECT. AND AND, AND THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, CURRENTLY WRITTEN, THEY CAN HAVE OUTDOOR DINING.

YES. SO AGAIN, I, WE DON'T NEED TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF DEVELOPERS DETERMINING HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD THEIR BUILDING.

THAT IS UP TO THEM. AND WE AS A COUNCIL DO NOT NEED TO BE STICKING OUR NOSE WHERE IT DOESN'T BELONG.

IF THEY DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE A BUILDING THAT HAS OUTDOOR DINING, THEN THEY SHOULD BUILD A BUILDING THAT HAS OUTDOOR DINING OR OUTDOOR OUTDOOR SPACE. IF THEY DECIDE AT THE TIME THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CONSTRUCT THAT BUILDING, THAT THEY DON'T WANT THAT OUTDOOR SPACE, THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO DO IT. WE AS A COUNCIL, THOUGH, OR WE AS A MUNICIPALITY HAVE PROVIDED THE CODES NECESSARY FOR THEM TO MAKE THAT DECISION, AND THEY CAN DO SO AT THE TIME THAT THEY'RE DOING THE DEVELOPMENT.

DON'T COME BACK AND COMPLAIN TO US THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OUTDOOR DINING WHEN YOU, AS A DEVELOPER, DIDN'T PUT THE OUTDOOR DINING IN THERE THAT YOU COULD HAVE PUT IN THERE WHEN YOU BUILT YOUR BUILDING, THAT'S NOT ON US. THAT'S THAT'S ON THE DEVELOPER. YEAH. WELL STATED.

HOWEVER, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME PROTECTION MECHANISMS IN THERE.

WHEN WE'RE DOING A RESOLUTION OR WE'RE DOING IT THAT IF YOU CHOOSE TO, THAT THESE OPTIONS WON'T BE MADE TO YOU.

AND JUST THEN I HAVE KRAMER. WE'RE GETTING THERE.

YEAH. YEAH. AND THEN I'LL ADDRESS THAT LATER IN THIS AGENDA.

AND THEN THE SECOND PIECE TO THAT IS A GOOD BUSINESS PLAN.

[02:40:05]

BUT IT'S NOT GOOD BUSINESS NOT TO HAVE THE RETAIL AND THE MIX.

BUT I THINK BY I THINK HONESTLY, HAVING THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOT OLD, YOU HAVE RELATIVELY, RELATIVELY NEW EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT ARE STRAIGHT UP TO THE BUILD TO LINE WITH.

IF YOU DO NOT ALLOW THE OPTION OF OUTDOOR DINING ON PUBLIC PROPERTY, THAT MAY DETER EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM FROM TURNING INTO A RESTAURANT BECAUSE THEY WON'T BE ALLOWED TO PROVIDE. YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE EVERYONE COMES IN HOW MANY TIMES WE JUST HEARD IT FOR THE OLDE NAPLES BUILDING.

YOU CAN'T OPERATE A RESTAURANT IN THIS TOWN WITHOUT OUTDOOR DINING. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

AND THAT'S WHY I LOOK AT YOU AND THE LEGAL AND THE MANAGEMENT TO SAY, WHAT CAN WE DO SO THAT IT'S CLEAR TO THEM? BECAUSE IF IT SAYS AS BARTON, YOU CAN YOU CAN ASK FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

BUT IS IT PRACTICAL AND IS IT RIGHT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT STREET? KRAMER. WHAT HE SAID. YEAH, I AGREE. WHAT HE SAID IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. HOWEVER, WE ALLOW THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN AND THEN WE GET UP HERE AND POLITICALLY SAY, OH YES, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO THE OUTDOOR DINING THAT'S ON PUBLIC LAND AT SOME POINT IN TIME IN THIS IN THIS OVERLAY PROCESS.

I'M GETTING THERE. OKAY. WE GOT A COUPLE PAGES.

DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? SORRY. THERE'S A LOT.

I WAS JUST GOING TO I AGREE, BUT ALSO ADD THAT IF WE ADDRESS REQUIRING SOME FORM OF PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING, THAT'S ALSO GOING TO INFLUENCE THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. MOVING ON. OKAY. MOVING.

NEXT YOU HAVE BUILDING USES. THIS IS JUST A PREVIEW FOR A TOPIC WE'LL DISCUSS HERE IN A MINUTE.

ANOTHER VERY UNIQUE THING ABOUT THE OVERLAY DISTRICT, UNLIKE OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS, IS THAT THE OVERLAY DISTRICT IS VERY SPECIFIC ON WHAT USES ARE ALLOWED ON THE FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD FLOOR.

SO THAT WAS VERY INTENTIONAL. FIRST FLOOR IS WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR COMMERCIAL, YOUR HEAVY COMMERCIAL RESTAURANTS, STUFF LIKE THAT. SECOND FLOOR IS A LITTLE BIT OF A BUFFER.

THIRD FLOORS FOR YOUR RESIDENTIAL. IT DOESN'T.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A. RESTAURANTS ON THE SECOND AND THIRD FLOOR. THAT'S THAT CREATES THAT BUFFER SO THAT YOUR MOST INTENSE USES ARE NOT.

SHARING WINDOWS WITH YOUR RESIDENCES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO THAT'S VERY SPECIFIC IN THIS CODE. WHERE THAT WILL COME INTO A CONVERSATION AFTER THIS IS GOING TO BE THE ROOFTOP DINING CONVERSATION.

I JUST HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE YOU ALL THE INFORMATION.

SO IT'S IN THERE. SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT FURTHER IN A SECOND.

NOW WE'LL GET TO WHAT YOU GUYS, I THINK ALL WANT TO TALK ABOUT. AND THAT'S TWO THINGS RELATED TO OUTDOOR DINING. ONE IS PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

VERY UNIQUE TO THE OVERLAY DISTRICT IS THAT PARKING IS NOT REQUIRED FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY.

BUT IN THIS DISTRICT, YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PARKING.

THAT'S JUST UNIQUE TO THIS. WE'VE SEEN A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN THE DEMAND FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

LIKE I SAID, WE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM A RESTAURANT OPERATOR A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT SAID, YOU CAN'T OPERATE A BUSINESS, CAN'T OPERATE A RESTAURANT IN THIS TOWN WITHOUT OUTDOOR DINING. I THINK THIS REALLY CAME HIT US HARD DURING COVID.

THAT'S THE NEED FOR OUTDOOR DINING. REALLY CAME UP DURING COVID.

AND WE SAW EVERY, YOU KNOW, WE REQUEST AFTER REQUEST AFTER REQUEST.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WILL SAY SO YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PARK ALL YOUR COMMERCIAL, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO PARK OUTDOOR DINING.

NEXT THING TIED TO OUTDOOR DINING IS THE OUTDOOR DINING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

SO WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION MANY TIMES. EVERY SINGLE OUTDOOR DINING PERMIT THAT THE CITY HAS ISSUED CURRENTLY.

THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS IN THE PAST, BUT CURRENTLY ISSUED OUTDOOR DINING PERMITS ON PUBLIC PROPERTY ARE IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY.

SO THAT IS BOTH PUBLIC THAT IS TABLES AND CHAIRS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE BUILDING.

YOU'LL SEE SOMETIMES LITTLE TWO TOPS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE FACE OF THE BUILDING.

AND THEN ALSO IT'S THE PUBLIC. IT'S THE RIGHT OF WAY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SIDEWALK.

SO IN BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE SIDEWALK, YOU'LL SEE MANY INSTANCES OF OUTDOOR DINING IN THAT PUBLIC PROPERTY.

WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES MOST RECENTLY IN 2023.

THE CONVERSATION, I THINK THERE WAS PRETTY MUCH UNANIMOUS IN INTENT OR DESIRE TO AMEND THIS CODE. THE DISCUSSION CAME DOWN TO IS IT JUST LOOKING TO THE FUTURE OR IS IT JUST SAYING NO.

[02:45:08]

THAT IS NOT THAT'S NOT THEIR PROPERTY. THAT'S THE CITY'S PROPERTY.

IT'S A PERMIT THAT IS ISSUED BY THE CITY. THAT PERMIT IS CONDITIONAL AT ALL TIMES.

IT'S DEPENDENT UPON MAKING SURE THAT THAT PERSON MAINTAINS THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IN THAT PERMIT.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT AND THE ABILITY TO REVOKE THOSE PERMITS BASED ON, YOU KNOW, IF THEY VIOLATE ANY OF THE TERMS, ANY OF THE CONDITIONS IN THEIR PERMIT, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO REVOKE THAT PERMIT. AND I HAVE THE ABILITY TO BRING IT BACK TO YOU FOR RECONSIDERATION IF VIOLATIONS ARE ISSUED AGAINST THOSE PROPERTIES. SO JUST KEEPING THAT IN MIND, THIS IS NOT A PRIVATE PROPERTY, RIGHT? THIS IS THE CITY'S PROPERTY. THIS IS A PERMIT THAT WE'RE ISSUING TO A PROPERTY OWNER.

SO MOST RECENTLY IN 2023, THE CITY ASKED THAT WE COME BACK TO COUNCIL WITH OPTIONS FOR SUNSETTING, ESSENTIALLY SUNSETTING THE OUTDOOR, THE PERMITS THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY.

SO I BELIEVE THAT IS A DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE SCHEDULED FOR SOON.

WELL, I, WE WORKED WITH THE BID, WE HAD SEVERAL BUSINESS OWNERS HERE.

WE CAME UP WITH AN ORDINANCE. IT WENT TO A B, IT WENT TO A, B AND COUNCIL ON FIRST READING.

RIGHT. AND SO JUST BARTON. HEADS UP. SOMEONE WHO POLITICALLY DIDN'T WANT TO. WHO WAS RERUNNING DID NOT WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE UPSET AND SAID, LET'S PAUSE AND THINK ABOUT THIS.

SO WE KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AND THAT'S HOW WE DON'T GET THINGS DONE.

SO IS, I MEAN, SORRY TO BE SO BLUNT, BUT AND THEN, AND THEN SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE AND IT'S OUT THERE STILL. THAT SHOULD COME BACK HERE AND WE SHOULD TAKE ACTION ON IT.

YEAH. THIS DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE, I BELIEVE THE FIRST MEETING I HAD AS I TOOK OVER AS CITY MANAGER IN THE FIRST READING WAS THAT DAY.

AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS, WHILE IT HAD GONE TO PAB, THERE WAS COMMENTS FROM THE DAIS AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY, OKAY, WE IF WE MAKE THIS CHANGE, THAT MEANS WE CAN'T.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANY MORE. BUT HOW DO WE SUNSET THOSE THAT ARE THERE? AND THEN IT TURNED INTO HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THE PARKING.

THEY CAN OPEN THEIR DOOR TO GET OUT? AND THERE WAS A LOT OF VARIABLES, IF YOU REMEMBER THE NUANCES OF THAT MEETING.

YES. AND SO, SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO BRING THE ORDINANCE BACK, LOOK AT IT AND IT'S AND HAVE IT AS A WORKSHOP ITEM TO DISCUSS IT.

BUT I DON'T THINK YOU'RE FAR OFF. THE SUNSET PART WAS ABOUT, YEAH, WE WANT TO STOP IT IMMEDIATELY.

THE QUESTION WILL BE, IS, ARE YOU GOING TO DELAY ONE? AND MAYBE THAT WAS PROBABLY IN HINDSIGHT OF IF I'D HAVE BEEN ON THE JOB OF A LITTLE BIT MORE.

I SAID, WHY DON'T WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO SUNSET THEM LATER? BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE MADE A DEFINITIVE DECISION.

BUT I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE THAT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO BRING THAT ORDINANCE BACK, HAVE A DISCUSSION AND THEN MAKE A DECISION IF WE'RE GOING TO CARRY FORWARD WITH IT.

SO GOOD. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL BRING THAT ONE BACK.

OKAY. SOUND GOOD? YES. BLANKENSHIP QUESTION ON THE DEAL TO NOT REQUIRE PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING. WAS THAT DONE FOR A SPECIFIC REASON? LIKE AS AN INCENTIVE TO GET PEOPLE TO REDEVELOP BACK WHEN THINGS WERE STRUGGLING? ABSOLUTELY. WITH THE I AND AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE OVERALL PARKING.

BUT THESE ARE SMALL LOTS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE ONLY DISTRICT WHERE YOU HAVE DESIGNATED GARAGE LOCATIONS BECAUSE THE IDEA IS THEY KNEW THAT NO ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO REDEVELOP THESE LOTS WITH ANY SORT OF MEANINGFUL REDEVELOPMENT IF THEY HAD TO PROVIDE THE FULL AMOUNT OF REQUIRED PARKING.

SO YES, IT WAS, IT WAS AN INCENTIVE TO. SO IF THE CITY STOPPED THAT AND SAID, FOR FUTURE OUTDOOR DINING APPLICATIONS, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE, NOT SEE ONE SINGLE PHYSICAL PARKING SPACE, BUT YOU WILL HAVE MORE ALLOCATIONS OUT OF THE PARKING GARAGE AND THERE ARE SPACES STILL AVAILABLE. AVAILABLE? YES. YEAH, A COUPLE HUNDRED AVAILABLE.

BUT FOR THE ONES THAT HAVE. SO FOR RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED WITH OUTDOOR DINING WITH NO PARKING PROVIDED, DOES THAT CONTINUE WITH THE PROPERTY FOREVER OR DOES IT GO AWAY WHEN LIKE THERE'S A THE BUSINESS IS SOLD OR THE RESTAURANTS SOLD? DO THEY IF THE IF THE LAW WAS CHANGED SO THAT YOU DID HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD STAY WITH THE PROPERTY OR NOT?

[02:50:01]

SO GENERALLY SPEAKING, NONCONFORMITY CHANGE HANDS AS LONG AS THEY ARE OPERATED IN THE SAME MANNER THAT THEY WERE PRIOR TO THE CODE CHANGE.

BUT JUST LIKE FOR OUTDOOR DINING, WHEN YOU REQUIRE OWNERSHIP CHANGE TO COME BEFORE YOU.

YOU HAVE TO CAREFULLY CRAFT IT, BUT I THINK THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN MASSAGE IN SOME LANGUAGE IF THAT WAS THE INTENT OF COUNCIL, LIKE IF YOU'RE MAYBE NOT A NEW BUSINESS, BECAUSE IF IT'S A RESTAURANT, RESTAURANT WOULD BE THE SAME.

BUT IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING NEW OR YOU'RE APPLYING FOR BUILDING PERMITS OR EXPANDING THE FOOTPRINT OR MAKING STRUCTURAL CHANGES, USUALLY THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERS A NONCONFORMITY, EITHER A REQUEST IN FRONT OF COUNSEL OR COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE.

YEAH. IT SEEMS TO ME WE SHOULD HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND GET PUBLIC INPUT FROM RESIDENTS FROM THE BID.

JUST SEEMS LIKE WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THAT TYPE OF INCENTIVE.

AND WE HAVE A PARKING SHORTAGE. AND IF WE KEEP APPROVING OUTDOOR DINING WITHOUT PARKING, WE MAKE IT WORSE.

YEAH. WELL, AND YES, AND WE DID. THAT'S WHY MEG WORKED REALLY HARD AT BRINGING THOSE BUSINESSES IN.

I THOUGHT WE WERE MOVING FORWARD. BUT I'M GLAD IT'S COMING BACK.

BUT ALSO MISS MARTIN, THE CHANGE OF USE IS VERY IMPORTANT, MR. MCCONNELL, BECAUSE YOU CAN GO FROM A RETAIL THAT REQUIRES LESS PARKING TO A RESTAURANT.

AND WE DON'T ALWAYS ACCOMMODATE THE PARKING WHEN THERE'S A CHANGE OF USE.

SO THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY, THAT IS YOU ARE CORRECT.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IS UNIQUE IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY THAT JUST TREATS COMMERCIAL AS COMMERCIAL.

SO IF YOU HAVE COMMERCIAL SPACE AND IT'S RETAIL AND YOU CHANGE TO RESTAURANT, THERE IS NO INCREASE IN THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.

WHEREAS ELSEWHERE IN THE CITY THERE ARE DIFFERENT PARKING RATIOS FOR DIFFERENT COMMERCIAL USES.

THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY COMMERCIAL IS COMMERCIAL REGARDLESS OF WHAT THAT COMMERCIAL USE IS.

SO SHE'S CORRECT. YOU COULD HAVE A RETAIL FIRST FLOOR THAT CHANGES TO RESTAURANT, AND THEY DO NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PARKING FOR THAT CHANGE OF USE.

AND WE HAVE NEVER INCLUDED OR I SHOULDN'T SAY NEVER, BUT WE HAVE NOT TRADITIONALLY INCLUDED EMPLOYEE PARKING, WHICH HAS BECOME THE PROBLEM.

IT'S ALL CALCULATED TOGETHER. SO IT'S A GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE.

SO WHATEVER THE THE GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT UNIT IS THAT ASSUMES THAT IT'S ENCAPSULATING PATRONS, EMPLOYEES, EVERYONE SEEMS. I AGREE WE SHOULD CONSIDER CHANGE OF USE TO.

I MEAN HIGH INTENSE USE THAT WASN'T ENVISIONED BEFORE.

TO PRETEND LIKE IT DOESN'T HAVE ADDITIONAL PARKING REQUIREMENTS IS ASKING FOR TROUBLE, AND I AGREE.

AGAIN, I THINK IF I THINK THE QUESTION COMES DOWN TO IS THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE, ARE WE TRYING TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE WE PROVIDE MORE PARKING BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY.

SO REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PARKING DEMAND IS FOR THAT USE, THEY'RE GOING TO BUY IT OUT OF THE PARKING GARAGE, RIGHT? IT'S AN EXISTING BUILDING. SO IF IT'S RETAIL AND IT SWITCHES TO RESTAURANT AND NOW THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE FIVE MORE SPACES.

THEY'RE GOING TO WRITE YOU A CHECK, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE ANY ADDITIONAL PARKING.

AND SO THAT'S I THINK IT ALL HAS TO BE DISCUSSED TOGETHER BECAUSE UNTIL IT'S ALL SOLD, UNTIL IT'S SOLD, AND THEN SOMEONE HAS A COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITY TO OPEN UP AND SALE PARKING.

YEAH. WHAT'S THE POINT OF TAKING MONEY FOR PARKING IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BUY LAND AND MAYBE BUY FOR A PARKING GARAGE. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT'S FOR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT TO HELP THE PARKING FUND, IT GOES INTO A PARKING FUND. IT'S NOT JUST A GENERAL POOL OF MONEY THAT CAN BE SPENT ON ANYTHING.

YOU ARE CORRECT. THAT MONEY. I THINK THERE'S A LOT AVAILABLE ON FOURTH AND FORTH IN CASE ANYBODY IS WAS WONDERING. WELL, AND THERE ARE OTHER LINES THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER LOCATION OR SOME TYPE OF.

THAT'S WHAT PLANNING DOES. I MEAN, AGAIN, I'LL.

GOD REST HIS SOUL. ANDRE WAS A VISIONARY, BUT IT WAS HIS PROPERTY AND HE WORKED A DEAL TO MAKE IT THE BEST WAY TO BENEFIT HIM AND, AND OUR REGULATING PLANS. SO, I MEAN, WE NEED TO LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS.

AND THERE ARE OTHER VACANT LOTS AROUND. YEAH.

SO JUST A QUICK COMMENT. RIGHT AWAY, THE SPECIAL OVERLAY DISTRICT, THEY HAVE THIS SPECIAL WE'VE GIVEN CITY LAND USAGE AWAY. I'M JUST NOT FOR THAT.

[02:55:01]

COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE GIVING IT OUT.

SECOND THING, THE PARKING IS A PROBLEM. HOW CAN WE? HOW CAN WE NOT ADDRESS A REQUIREMENT WITH PARKING ON ROOFTOP DINING AND OUTDOOR DINING? IT'S RIDICULOUS. YOU NEED A PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR THAT.

AND WE NEED TO DO A FEASIBILITY STUDY ON WHERE TO PUT A THIRD GARAGE.

WE GOT A LOT BY THE FIREHOUSE. WE GOT A LOT OVER THERE.

WE GOT FOURTH AND FOURTH THAT BYRNE LIKES. SO WE WE NEED A FEASIBILITY STUDY.

DONE. WELL, THERE ARE OTHER LOTS ALSO. OKAY. MADAM MAYOR.

YES, SIR. SO THE ONE THING, IN SOME REGARDS, IT'S A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

WHEN YOU CREATE A FUND, AS YOU DID IN THE DOWNTOWN AND AND IN THE FIFTH AVENUE, TO BE ABLE TO BUY LAND AND PUT IN PARKING LOTS, THEN YOU NEVER HAVE A OBLIGATION THAT THAT REQUIRES THEM TO PAY FOR PARKING.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO. IT'S HAPPENED, BUT NOT OFTEN.

ARE THEY GOING TO VOLUNTARILY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO BUY THE SPACES SO THAT THEY HAVE THEM.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT RIGHT NOW, YOU BUY IN FOURTH AND FOURTH, AND I'M JUST USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE.

I DON'T CARE WHAT LOT YOU'RE COMPETING AGAINST YOUR OWN OTHER CITY OBLIGATIONS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PARKING REQUIREMENT AND IT JUST IS ALL COMMERCIAL. YOU HAVE NO INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO BUY ANY EITHER.

SO THEN WHEN YOU. IT'S ONE THING TO SAY, IF YOU KEEP IT INSIDE OF YOUR, YOU KNOW, IN THE BOUNDARIES AND IT'S INDOOR OR, BUT OUTDOOR HAVING ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE MOVEMENT WE'VE HAD, YOU HAVE NO INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO MAKE DEPOSITS.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE DID ON FIRST, 10TH AND 12TH IS, IS WE SAID THAT WHEN WE BUILT THE FIRST AVENUE SOUTH GARAGE SAID IT'S THIS ALLOCATION OF MONEY. AND YOU DIDN'T CHANGE TO SAY IF IT'S IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE PARKING OR YOU DON'T HAVE TO SUPPLY THE PARKING.

IF THAT EVER GETS TO A POINT WHERE IT CAN'T SUPPLY THE PARKING, AND YOU PUT THE SAME THING IN TO SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY PARKING, YOU WOULD DEFEATED THE PURPOSE OF CREATING AN OBLIGATE AN AMOUNT TO PAY FOR IT.

SO IN THE END, YOU'RE COMPETING AGAINST GOVERNMENT INTERESTS.

AND EVEN IF YOU START IN GOVERNMENTAL INTEREST, AND EVEN IF YOU STARTED TOMORROW LOOKING FOR A LOT, HOW ARE YOU? HOW ARE YOU PAYING FOR IT? AND SO I THINK THEY WORK HAND IN HAND.

AND I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THAT IS IF I DO WANT TO SELL IT, RECOGNIZE I'VE GOT TO BUY MORE LAND SOMEWHERE AND I MUST PUT IN A PARKING GARAGE. BUT AT LEAST THAT FUNDING MECHANISM HAS A TRIGGER THAT SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY SOMETHING AND IT'S GOING TO MOVE.

IT HASN'T MOVED IN YEARS BECAUSE THERE'S NO OBLIGATION BECAUSE OF ALL THE INCENTIVES.

SO THEY DO WORK HAND IN HAND IN THAT REGARD. AND IF WE ALL RECOGNIZE YOU HAVE A PARKING OBLIGATION, THEN EVEN IF IT'S NOT THE SAME ONE FOR ONE THAT YOU WOULD IN ANOTHER DISTRICT, YOU GOT TO CREATE SOME INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO BUY HAVE TO BUY A SPACE THAT WILL HELP PROVIDE THE FUNDING. YOU DO THAT COUPLED WITH QUANTIFYING THE VALUE OF THOSE THAT HAVE OUTDOOR DINING ON YOUR YOUR RIGHT OF WAY.

NOW YOU'VE CREATED TWO FINANCIAL TRIGGERS. EVEN BEFORE WE GET TO ANY TYPE OF A PAID PARKING TO HAVE SOME REVENUE GENERATED, THAT'S NOT EITHER ON THE BACK OF YOUR CRA OR COMPETING FOR OTHER GOVERNMENTAL INTERESTS.

SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I THINK THE MODEL IS THERE, IT JUST HAS TO BE.

BUT OH, IT'S ALL FREE AND GIVEN AWAY. THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE MODEL TO WORK BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR ANYTHING.

THAT'S THE THAT'S THE LINCHPIN TO MAKE THE OTHER START TO HAPPEN IN A NATURAL BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT.

FROM WHAT I WOULD THE WAY I WOULD CONSIDER IT WITHOUT IT FALLING ON THE BACK OF EITHER THE CRA OR GOVERNMENTAL AS IT IS.

SO TO TO CLARIFY WHAT I THINK I'M HEARING, YOUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO REQUIRE THE PROVISION OR REQUIRE PEOPLE TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING AND TO BASE IT ON USE IN THE. I THINK IT SHOULD BE MEASURED.

WHETHER YOU DO IT AS A SLIDING SCALE OR 100%, YOU HAVE TO BEGIN TO.

TO TAKE AWAY THE ENTIRE INCENTIVE THAT THE ENTIRE THING HAS NO PARKING REQUIREMENT WITH.

IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE. ANYBODY OPPOSED TO IT? I MEAN, THERE MIGHT BE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF IT THAT MAKE MORE SENSE THAN OTHERS FROM.

FROM A STANDPOINT OF. IS IT GRANDFATHERED IN? IS IT ONLY GOING TO CHANGE WHEN OWNERSHIP CHANGES OR IS ONLY GOING TO CHANGE WHEN USE CHANGES? I MEAN, WE NEED TO WE NEED TO EXPLORE THE LANGUAGE. BUT I THINK THE CONCEPT OF, OF PARKING, OUTDOOR DINING IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED BY THE COUNCIL.

SO HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD? WELL, THEY'RE GOING TO BRING.

YEAH. I MEAN YEAH MATTHEW AND GARY AND I NEED TO TALK.

I MEAN, IS THAT TIED TO THE BUSINESS OWNER? IS THAT TIED TO THE DEVELOPER?

[03:00:02]

AND THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M ALREADY COMING BACK TO YOU FOR THE OUTDOOR DINING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY SO WE COULD WRITE THAT CONVERSATION.

SO YEAH, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE OTHER ONE WILL BE ABLE TO BE, HAVE AS QUICK OF A DISCUSSION, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCES YOU HAVE TO FACTOR INTO THAT.

AND I THINK HAVING CONVERSATIONS, YOU KNOW, WITH THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND UNDERSTANDING THOSE DYNAMICS, I DON'T THINK WE DO IT IN A VACUUM, THAT'S FOR SURE.

SO I THINK WE CAN BRING THE OUTDOOR DINING BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY HAD THE PRINCIPAL DISCUSSION ON YOUR RIGHT OF WAY, AND ALLOWING OUTDOOR DINING ON YOUR RIGHT OF WAY IS THE OTHER ONE I THINK WILL TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME AND SHOULD BE MORE THOUGHT PROVOKING BEFORE WE JUST TRY TO TURN IT AROUND. THAT'S ALL. I HOPE THAT'S FAIR. OKAY.

CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION, PLEASE? MISS MARTIN, SO IF SOMEONE HAS OUTDOOR DINING AND THEY ACCOMMODATE IT IN THE APRON OR WITHIN THEIR BUILDING ENVELOPE, IS THAT CALCULATED? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? INTO PARKING? NO, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING.

THERE IS NO NO, JUST BECAUSE I MEAN, TECHNICALLY THAT'S STILL THE COMMERCIAL SPACE OF THE RESTAURANT.

CORRECT. SO UNIQUE TO THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY. NO.

NO PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR OUTDOOR DINING, WHETHER IT'S PUBLIC OR PRIVATE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. PLEASE. KRAMER. BUT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS KIND OF.

WE HAVE NOT I DON'T WANT TO SOUND HOSTILE ANY PROJECT, BUT WE RECENTLY APPROVED SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO DO THE OUTDOOR DINING. IT'S GOING TO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE BIG DOORS. THEY CAN OPEN OR CLOSE, BUT IT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY. CORRECT. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PARK THAT PART, BUT THE INSIDE PART THEY DO. AND SO IT GIVES THEM LESS OF A PARKING REQUIREMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING IT THAT WAY. YES. SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S LIKE TO YOUR POINT.

WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT IF WE WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN OR NOT.

YES, THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IN THE NEXT ITEM AS WELL.

WHAT A SEGUE COMES TOGETHER. OKAY, WELL I'LL BRING THAT BACK TO YOU.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS JUST KIND OF TOOK US RIGHT INTO THE PARKING IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY.

SO THE VERY UNIQUE ZONING DISTRICT. THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR YOUR COMMERCIAL USES.

YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO ALLOCATE THEM OUT OF THE PARKING GARAGE.

IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A CHEAP PROPOSITION. THAT AMOUNT INCREASES.

THE MOST RECENT PROPERTY WE HAD WAS ALLOCATED AT 43,493, A SPACE THAT GOES UP EVERY YEAR ON JANUARY 1ST BASED ON CPI.

SO THAT THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE EVERY YEAR.

BUT AGAIN, THAT ALLOWS YOU, THAT'S ALL YOUR COMMERCIAL USES.

WE DO REQUIRE THAT YOU PROVIDE. THERE ARE TWO SPACES REQUIRED FOR RESIDENTIAL AND THEIR SPACES REQUIRED FOR TRANSIENT LODGING.

THOSE THE RESIDENTIAL SPACES HAVE TO BE ON YOUR PROPERTY, SO YOU CAN ALLOCATE ALL OF YOUR COMMERCIAL OUT OF THE GARAGE, BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE PHYSICALLY PROVIDE ON YOUR PROPERTY, THE RESIDENTIAL SPACES.

BUT EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE ALLOCATED. YOU ALSO GET A CREDIT FOR EXISTING SQUARE FOOTAGE.

WHEN YOU REDEVELOP, YOU ARE, YOU ONLY HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR THE CHANGE IN SQUARE FOOTAGE.

WE GIVE YOU A CREDIT FOR WHAT'S EXISTING. SO THERE THE PROBABLY THE BIGGEST INCENTIVE FOR REDEVELOPMENT IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY IS PARKING.

BUT WHAT HAS REALLY DRIVEN THIS HOME RECENTLY IS THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD WITH OUTDOOR DINING.

THAT'S KIND OF BEEN, THAT'S AS, AS ALL OF THESE COMMERCIAL UNITS HAVE GONE TO RESTAURANT, WE'VE REALLY STARTED TO SEE THAT SO WE, THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF CHANGES THAT WE MADE.

LIKE I SAID, WE CHANGED IT SO THAT THE RESIDENTIAL SPACES ALL HAVE TO BE PROVIDED ON SITE. THERE ARE A COUPLE ORDINANCES THAT I INCLUDED IN YOUR YOUR AGENDA PACKET.

THOSE ARE JUST THE ONES WE'VE PASSED RECENTLY, BUT THAT WAS THE MOST RECENT ONE WAS THAT CHANGE TO RESIDENTIAL UNITS.

SO I DON'T, I THINK YOU COULD CHANGE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

I THINK REQUIRING THE FULL PROVISION OF PARKING FOR EVERY NEW DEVELOPMENT ON SITE WOULD BE. YOU'D BE ENCOURAGING A LOT OF UNDERGROUND PARKING.

I BELIEVE THE WORD YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS IMPOSSIBLE. IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE. I MEAN, FORTH, AND I'M SORRY, FIFTH AND FIFTH IS ENTIRELY SELF PARKED. SO THE FIFTH AND FIFTH DEVELOPMENT PROVIDES 100% OF THEIR REQUIRED PARKING ON SITE, BUT IT'S UNDERGROUND. SAME WITH THE 505 BUILDING.

THEY HAVE IT, BUT IT'S UNDERGROUND. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT YOU LOOK AT.

KEEPING IN MIND ALSO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE ALL, WE ALL LIVE HERE.

WE KNOW WHERE THE LITTLE POCKETS ARE. WE KNOW WHERE YOU CAN PARK IF YOU DRIVE DOWN TO FIFTH.

BUT IF YOU'RE RELYING ON PRIVATELY OWNED VACANT PARCELS, THINK BIG.

I MEAN, I'M A PLANNER. THINK BIG PICTURE. THOSE ARE GOING TO GET DEVELOPED AT SOME POINT. YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT THE OWNERS OF THOSE PROPERTIES ARE GOING TO DEVELOP THOSE LOTS. SO

[03:05:05]

AND ALSO IT'S THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY. THOSE ARE PRIVATE PARKING SPACES.

THAT'S NOT PUBLIC PARKING. I DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT IF I'M GOING TO GRACE AND SHELLY'S, I DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO PARK IN A PARKING LOT ACROSS THE STREET.

THAT'S. THEY DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO RESTRICT PARKING.

SO, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC PARKING IS A PREMIUM IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY.

WHEN ARE WE GETTING TO VALET? THAT'S NEXT. SO ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST A PARKING JUST I WASN'T LOOKING FOR ANY FEEDBACK.

THAT WAS JUST. SO YOU HAVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE PARKING REGULATIONS.

OUR NEXT TOPIC HERE IS THAT I HAVE JUST IN, IN ORDER IN YOUR AGENDA IS PAID PARKING.

I THINK GARY AND LISA DOUGLAS HAVE A LITTLE INFORMATION.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING TO SOLVE TODAY. BUT IT'S IN YOUR YOUR PACKET BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE CONSIDERATION OF OVERALL PARKING IN THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY. SO I'LL LET LISA AND THIS WILL BE THE KICKOFF TO WHAT WILL BE A BROADER DISCUSSION.

BUT AS WE AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT PAID PARKING.

WE HAD PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WITH THE BID, WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT, BUT WITH PAID PARKING COMES.

OBVIOUSLY IT REQUIRED CHANGES TO POTENTIALLY THE LOOK OF THE AVENUE, ETC.

SO I WANT TO AND I WANTED TO INVITE LISA HERE TO KIND OF GO THROUGH SOME OF THAT INFORMATION, AND THEN WE'LL CIRCLE BACK. BUT WE WANTED TO JUST GET YOUR KNEE JERK REACTION BECAUSE IT'S AN IMPORTANT DISCUSSION AS PART OF FIFTH AVENUE.

SO HI. GOOD MORNING. LISA, I THINK YOU TURN. THERE IT IS.

DID I TURN IT OFF OR TURN ON? OKAY. THANK YOU.

AS GARY SAID, WE WANTED TO KIND OF JUST GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATION THAT WAS IN YOUR POWERPOINT.

I MEAN, THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION THAT WAS IN YOUR PACKET. THE WE WOULD BE REMISS TO NOT TALK ABOUT THE PAID PARKING WE CURRENTLY HAVE IF WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT FIRST AND SOME OF THE LESSONS THAT WE'VE LEARNED AND HOW WE CAN TAKE THAT ON TO STREET PARKING ON FIFTH AVENUE.

RIGHT. SO I WANTED TO KIND OF JUST GO WITH YOU JUST A MOMENT TO SAY THAT WE HAVE AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WITH COLLIER COUNTY.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE PAID PARKING AT THE BEACH ENDS.

WE ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE 1048 SPOTS AVAILABLE FOR BEACH PARKING.

WE MAINTAIN THAT WE ALWAYS TRY REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY TIME THAT THERE'S A.

IN LIEU OF PARKING, WE'RE NOT IMPACTING THE BEACH PARKING WITHIN THAT CONTRACT.

WE HAVE PAY STATIONS AT VARIOUS BEACH ENDS, AND WE HAVE THE MOBILE APP FOR PAYMENT ON ALL THE OTHER BEACH ENDS.

THE REASON THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SHOW YOU THESE PICTURES IS BECAUSE WE HAVE GOTTEN A VARIETY OF FEEDBACK ON OUR NEW AND IMPROVED SIGNAGE. THIS IS A A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THEY THEY DON'T HAVE A QUESTION ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN PARK THERE. THEY DON'T HAVE A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE TO PAY AT THE PAY STATION, ETC. BUT PEOPLE THAT COME HERE AND LIVE HERE, I'VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE.

50 SOME YEARS AND I USED TO GO TO THE BEACH AND IT HAD ONE SIGN.

NOW YOU GO DOWN THERE AND IT IS A REALLY HEAVILY SIGNED AREA BECAUSE JUDGES WERE THROWING OUT PARKING TICKETS, BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD COME BEFORE THEM AND SAID, I DIDN'T KNOW I COULDN'T PARK THERE.

SO YOU HAVE A BALANCE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THEN MOVE THIS DISCUSSION FROM THE BEACH END, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING THERE FOR ONE PURPOSE.

THEY'RE GOING TO THE BEACH, THEY'RE RUSHING, THEY'RE GOING LOOKING AT SIGNAGE.

THEY DEFINITELY KNOW THE SIGNAGE IS THERE, RIGHT? BUT IT ALSO IS VERY, IN SOME REGARD SIGN POLLUTION IN SOME AREAS.

AND I DON'T WANT TO, BUT IT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO ENFORCE THE BEACH PARKING.

RIGHT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FIFTH AVENUE, HOWEVER LET ME BACK UP.

WE ALSO HAVE THE STALL NUMBERS THAT ARE PAINTED ON THE GROUND.

AND FOR ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T KNOW THIS, IT'S PROBABLY IN YOUR BUDGET AND IT'S PROBABLY IN THE BLACK AND WHITE.

EACH ONE OF THESE LETTERS THAT YOU SEE IS ABOUT $20 TO INSTALL ON THE GROUND.

SO IF WE HAVE FOUR NUMBERS, YOU DO THE MATH AND THEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, 1000 PARKING SPOTS.

DO THE MATH. IT'S IT'S QUITE EXPENSIVE, BUT THEY LAST FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

SO WHAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT DOWNTOWN IS WE'VE HEARD FROM BOTH THE BID HAS HAD MEETINGS WITH THE CITY MANAGER AND THEY, THERE'S PARKING ANALYSIS. THERE'S STUDIES HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, BUT WE COME DOWN TO THE SAME THING.

PARKING IS PROBLEMATIC ON FIFTH AVENUE, AND WE WANTED TO REALLY KIND OF START TO TALK MORE ABOUT FINE TUNING.

WHAT DO WE WANT? DO WE WANT A FREE PARKING BUT RESTRICTION OF PARKING SO THAT YOU TURN OVER THAT SPACE MORE FREQUENTLY? DO YOU WANT FREE PARKING TO RESIDENTS ONLY AND HAVING SOME TYPE OF SYSTEM FOR PARKING FOR RESIDENTS ALONG FIFTH AVENUE AND,

[03:10:06]

BUT IT'S AS IS AND WHO CAN GET THERE? OR DO WE WANT TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT A PAID PARKING SOLUTION ON FIFTH AVENUE? ALL THOSE ARE UP FOR DISCUSSION AND TALKING ABOUT THE, THE FREE PARKING TO RESIDENTS WOULD REQUIRE A PLATE REGISTRATION.

WE CURRENTLY JUST HAVE SOMEBODY COME IN CITY HALL FOR BEACH PARKING, BUT WE COULD DO THAT ON AN ONLINE SYSTEM.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE A MOBILE APP SYSTEM THROUGH OUR T2 USE THIS SOLUTION THAT WE PAY FOR PARKING ON ON THE BEACH ENDS THAT COULD BE IMPLEMENTED PRETTY QUICKLY ALONG FIFTH AVENUE. THAT ALSO WOULD ALLOW US TO HAVE SOMEBODY GO ON TO THE ON ONLINE APP AND REGISTER THEMSELVES TO SAY, I'M A RESIDENT, HERE'S MY ADDRESS. AND IF YOU DID EXPAND, THIS IS JUST THIS JUMP OFF, BUT IF YOU EXPANDED PARKING, PAID PARKING ACROSS THE CITY AND NOT SPECIFICALLY TO THIS, YOU COULD ACTUALLY HAVE THAT AS A MEASURE TO SAY, THIS IS A ZONE A, PARKING ZONE B. ET CETERA. SO THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION THAT WE SHOULD HAVE.

THIS IS, AS GARY SAID, JUST A JUMPING OFF POINT.

THE ENFORCEMENT ACTUALLY IS REALLY TRICKY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE SIGNS TO TELL SOMEONE THAT THERE IS YOU KNOW, NO PAY, NO FREE PARKING, RIGHT? SO IN WHAT WE REALLY WANTED TO SHOW YOU AND I'LL SHOW YOU ON THE NEXT SLIDE IS, IS WHAT COULD WE DO INSTEAD OF ALL THESE MASSIVE SIGNAGE THAT WE DO ON THE BEACH ENDS, RIGHT? PUTTING SOMETHING SMALL IN THE WINDOWS OF THE BUSINESSES, HAVING THE BUSINESSES TALK TO THEIR PEOPLE SAYING, HEY, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR PARKING ALONG WITH SMALLER SIGNS, LOWER SIGNS.

SO AS YOU WALK, YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU DO HAVE TO PAY FOR PARKING.

AND LASTLY, TALKING ABOUT PAID PARKING GARAGES, BUT THAT WOULD BE A FUTURE CONSIDERATION.

WE WOULDN'T WANT TO ACTUALLY THROW ALL OF OUR THOUGHTS AT ONE.

WE WANT TO DO A VERY MEASURED APPROACH AND PUTTING ONE THING IN PLACE, MONITORING THE SUCCESS OF WHETHER OR NOT WE SEE PARKING TURNOVER, WHETHER WE HEAR LESS COMPLAINTS OF PARKING. WE RECOGNIZE ERICA JUST ELOQUENTLY LAID OUT THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, GAMUT OF WHY PARKING IS REALLY DIFFICULT ON FIFTH AVENUE.

BUT THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE SOLUTIONS THAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT TODAY.

WITH WITH THE PAID PARKING ON. I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

QUICK QUESTION. I'M I'M ASSUMING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON STREET FIRST VERSUS.

GARAGES. BECAUSE WHEREVER YOUR CHARGE IS GOING TO PUSH PEOPLE INTO THE OTHER AREA.

ABSOLUTELY. ON STREET FIRST. YES, SIR. AND I'M SORRY THAT I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

DEFINITELY ALONG FIFTH AVENUE. AND I THINK THE PREVIOUS STUDIES THAT I'VE READ, YOU KNOW, EVEN GAVE SOME, SOME STREETS. I DON'T WANT TO QUOTE WHERE I MEAN, JUST WITHIN SOME BOUNDARIES THAT WE WOULD LATER COME BACK TO YOU AND HAVE FURTHER DIALOG ABOUT IF THE DIRECTION IS. YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD TRY SOMETHING WITH PAID PARKING.

I THINK THAT WE WOULD COME BACK TO YOU WITH THOSE TYPES OF SOLUTIONS WITH WHAT WOULD BE A RATE AND WHAT WOULD BE THE TURNOVER, WHAT WOULD BE THE RESTRICTIONS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. THE THING THAT I LIKED ABOUT I RECENTLY TRAVELED TO FREDERICK, MARYLAND TO VISIT A FRIEND AND WE WERE WALKING AND EVERY THIRD SPACE HAD THESE BEAUTIFUL DECORATIVE SIGNS.

AND I KNOW I GAVE YOU A BUNCH OF SIGNAGE HERE, BUT TO THE RIGHT, YOU'LL SEE.

FREDERICK, MARYLAND. IT'S JUST A REALLY NICE DECORATIVE SIGN WITH A LITTLE TINY.

I THINK ACTUALLY THE MAYOR MAY HAVE ALSO TEXT ME ONE OF THESE BEFORE TOO.

BUT THIS STREET SIGN OR THIS PARKING SIGN IS UP FOR EVERY THIRD SPACE.

AND WHEN I SPOKE TO THE THE MUNICIPALITY, WHEN I CAME BACK, I ASKED THEM, YOU KNOW, WHERE CAN WE GET THESE POLES? AND THEY SAID, OH, WELL, THAT'S WHERE OUR PAY STATIONS USED TO BE.

WE TOOK THEM AWAY AND PUT THESE SIGNS ON. SO WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIND THOSE.

BUT DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS EVERY THIRD PARKING SPACE.

AND CONTRARY TO WHAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD, EVERY TIME YOU LOOK, IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT OF THE OTHER SIGNS, THEY'RE ALL THEY'RE ALL PERPENDICULAR TO THE STREET.

AND IN MARYLAND, THEY HAD THEM PARALLEL TO THE STREET.

AND WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING IS YOU CAN'T MISS IT WHEN YOU'RE WALKING, BECAUSE THE MESSAGE WHEN YOU DRIVE IN, YOU SEE IT. WHEN YOU WALK, YOU SEE IT. AND A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES DO WHAT WE DO, AND THAT IS PUT THEM PERPENDICULAR TO THE PATH THAT YOU'RE DRIVING OR WALKING. AND I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST AN INTERESTING.

AND WHEN I TALKED TO THE MUNICIPALITIES, SHE SAID THEY HAD MORE VISIBILITY AND PEOPLE COULD SEE THEM AS THEY'RE WALKING OR DRIVING IN.

SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING THING. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP DOWNTOWN FORT MYERS THE CITY MANAGER AND I WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THIS RECENTLY WHEN I WAS IN DOWNTOWN FORT MYERS. THEY HAD A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, FREE PARKING AFTER THESE HOURS.

[03:15:04]

AND AND, AND DURING THE WORK WEEK IS WHERE THEY SEE A LOT OF, OF, OF ISSUES WHERE THEY HAD A MOBILE PAYMENT APP AND SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY IN PLACE THAT WE COULD DEPLOY. SO I REALLY JUST, I KNOW, AND HOPEFULLY, MEG, I DIDN'T MESS THIS UP, BUT IN THE PRESENTATION I JUST SUMMARIZED THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS WITH THE BID WERE IN IN SEASON PARKING RESTRICTIONS, OR AT LEAST TALKING ABOUT IN SEASON SPECIFIC HOURS OF RESTRICTION, LIKE AFTER 1 P.M.

AND VALIDATION OF PARKING FROM BUSINESSES. THE THIRD 1ST MAY BE A CHALLENGE FOR US A LITTLE BIT AND CAUSE A LITTLE BIT OF AN ACCOUNTING NIGHTMARE FOR US.

BUT THE IN SEASON PARKING RESTRICTIONS AND THE SPECIFIC HOUR RESTRICTIONS, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE, ARE WE CAN HANDLE THROUGH OUR APP THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE THAT WE COULD DEPLOY RELATIVELY EASY.

AND WITH THAT, I THINK THAT ONE'S ONE FOR YOU.

ERICA. SO WITH THAT, I'LL, I'LL. SO YEAH, SO I'M GOING TO CHIME IN AND MEG, I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS 1 OR 2 P.M.

AS FAR AS THE TIME YOU WANTED IT TO START. BUT, BUT WE CAN ALWAYS FINALIZE THAT.

BUT FOR ME, I DO HAVE A COUPLE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS. ONE, YOU KNOW, SIGNAGE IS GOING TO CHANGE IN THE AVENUE.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT EVEN IF WE DID FULL DESIGN STARTING TOMORROW.

YOU'RE NOT REDOING FIFTH AVENUE FOR TWO AND A HALF TO THREE YEARS.

AND AND YOU'LL TALK ABOUT THE EDA GRANT LATER ON THIS MONTH.

AND SO THAT WE KNOW WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN IMMINENT.

WE MAY START DESIGN, BUT WE'RE STILL NOT GOING TO DO CONSTRUCTION. SO WE HAVE A WINDOW HERE IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME. THE QUESTION IS IN TWOFOLD AND ONE, I WANT TO ALSO SAY THIS. I ALREADY MENTIONED THIS TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND MY DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT.

AND I SAID, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, IF WE GO TO RESIDENT FREE TO RESIDENTS, IT WOULDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THE COUNTY.

SO THAT'S A KEY ELEMENT. AND THAT THAT WAS A VERY RESPECTFUL CONVERSATION.

IT WAS JUST THAT WE CONSIDERED THE 1300 SPACES, THE BEACH PARKING, OUR DOWNTOWN IS OUR DOWNTOWN.

AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE RECIPROCAL. WELL, THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT MOST IMPORTANT TO GO TO A LICENSE PLATE READER, BECAUSE THEN THEY CAN'T GO TO THE COUNTY AND SAY, I HAVE A COUNTY STICKER.

YOUR RESIDENTS WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER THEIR LICENSE PLATE.

THAT'S HOW YOU DELINEATE. SO YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT THAT HANDLED.

SO I JUST WANTED TO PREFACE THAT. SO THE QUESTION IS YES WE UNDERSTAND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SIGNAGE ON ON ON, ON FIFTH. YES OR NO. WE WANT RESIDENTS TO BE FREE.

AND THEN WE'LL BRING A PROJECT BACK TO YOU SAYING, AND AS FAR AS WHAT STREETS THAT WE SHOULD DO IT ON.

AND THEN THE OTHER COMPONENT WOULD BE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ANY OTHER AREA IN THE CITY TO SAY, DO WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER PARKING PROBLEM OR WHAT IS NEXT? I'LL REPEAT MYSELF JUST BECAUSE I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHENEVER YOU GO TO A PAID PARKING IN ONE AREA AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, YOU RUN THAT RISK. AND SO WE HAVE TO WALK SLIGHTLY OR LIGHTLY AND BE IN POSITION TO, TO ADJUST THE SAME TOKEN, IF WE GO SEASON ONLY AND WE HAVE ENFORCEMENT, I'VE GOT TO MEASURE SEASON ONLY REVENUE AGAINST RESOURCES TO HIRE AND ENFORCE. SO WE HAVE THAT ANALYSIS TO DO. THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT FULLY BAKED OUT.

BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU THOSE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT GIVES YOU TIME TO HAVE CONTEMPLATED ALL THESE THINGS.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT FREE TO CITY RESIDENTS, IF WE DID IT, THAT TRIGGERS US TO KNOW THAT WE GO LICENSE PLATE READER AND THAT TRIGGERS WHAT SYSTEM. AND THEN THE NEXT PART IS, DO YOU AGREE CONCEPTUALLY, AT LEAST FROM A SEASONAL PERSPECTIVE, SO THAT I'M ANALYZING ACCURATE INFORMATION ON A COST AND AND REVENUE BASIS? KRAMER. GARY, THIS IS FOR YOU. SO THEN I WAS THINKING SEASONALLY, CAN WE LOWER THE PRICE TO MAKE IT NOMINAL ENOUGH THAT IT WOULDN'T DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM PARKING ON THE STREET? YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE.

THERE'S NO WAY WE WOULD BE EVEN PROPOSING SOMETHING TO BE CLOSE TO YOUR BEACH PARKING.

SO I THINK IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING MORE REASONABLE IN ORDER TO NOT FULLY DISCOURAGE.

YEAH. AND I DO THE VALIDATION AND I THINK EVEN CRINGED WHEN WE WERE IN THE MEETING WITH MEG.

AND I'M NOT SURE I CAN DO THAT. I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THAT, BUT THAT THAT I WOULD RATHER HAVE A MORE NOMINAL FEE THAT THAT DOESN'T GET INTO THAT KIND OF BALLPARK FOR THOSE TYPES OF. YEAH, I'M NOT FOR THE VALIDATION AT ALL.

I AM ALL FOR RESIDENTS NOT PAYING TO PARK, AND I'M ALL FOR CHARGING FOR PARKING.

AND YOU'VE KNOWN THAT. I'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT FOR YEARS. I DON'T THINK I COULD OFFER ANY OTHER DIRECTION.

[03:20:04]

YEAH, I THINK THE I DON'T BELIEVE THIS COMPONENT OF IT WOULD BE WE HAVE ENOUGH TO NAIL DOWN WHAT IS NEEDED FOR OUR BEACHES.

AND THE OTHER. I WOULD LEAVE THIS OUT AND LEAVE IT FULLY IN YOUR DISCRETION, BECAUSE I THINK THAT YOU'D BE NEGOTIATING AGAINST.

WELL, HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ARE COMING AND HOW MANY ARE USING IT? AND THEN I JUST, I THINK THAT I THINK THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PARKING AND AT THEIR OWN BEACH LOCATIONS.

I THINK WE BOTH HAVE ENOUGH TO SOLVE THAT. WE HAVE COMMON INTERESTS AND THREADS THERE.

I THINK THE DIVERSITY OF THEIR YOU KNOW, WHAT DID YOU SAY? ENCLAVES OF BUSINESS AREAS ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN OURS.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF THERE THERE TO GAIN ANY TRUE MONETARY VALUE.

IF I WAS A COMMISSIONER, I DON'T KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE.

I THINK WE WOULD HAVE IT AS A COMPONENT OF OUR DISCUSSION ON THE LAST ITEM TODAY TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE PROBABLY INFORM THEM OF OUR OUR POTENTIAL INTENT TO DO SO, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THERE THERE. IN TERMS OF THEY WANT TO HAVE THEIR CITIZENS HAVE ACCESS TO THE BEACHES AND IT HELPS THEM AT THEIR BEACHES IN THE OTHER ENCLAVES IN BUSINESS AREAS.

I DON'T THINK THAT INCENTIVE IS THERE FOR THEM TO DO IT. WE CAN ASK THE QUESTION.

I JUST DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE THERE. I THINK YOU IF I MAY, GARY, I, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE AN AMENITY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT PAY TAXES AND VOTE FOR US, PERIOD. YEAH. NOT ANYBODY IN THE COUNTY. THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT I WAS INDICATING THAT YEAH.

WE WOULD WANT TO. AND I TOLD HER THAT IT WAS NOT THE INTENT THAT I WANTED HER TO KNOW.

AT LEAST WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION TODAY BECAUSE I HAD ENCOURAGED HER TO, TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO LISTEN TO THE PARTICIPATION.

BUT MY POINT WAS, IS I ALSO WANTED THEM TO KNOW THAT IT JUST ISN'T.

WE WOULD NEVER GO BEYOND THE 1300 SPACES THAT'S ALREADY DELINEATED IN THE PARKING AGREEMENT.

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE AN ABSOLUTE DEAL BREAKER FOR ME. YES.

THE OTHER THING TOO, IS IF IF A COUNCILMAN CRAWL.

IF THEY DID DO STREET PARKING, WE LIMITED IT TO RESIDENT TAXPAYERS OF THE CITY OF NAPLES.

PARKING ON THE STREET ON FIFTH FOR FREE. THEY STILL WOULD HAVE THE PARKING GARAGES FOR COUNTY RESIDENTS THAT COULD COME IF THEY WANTED TO GO TO FIFTH AVENUE AND PARK THEIR FREE AT THE PRESENT MOMENT. SO I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT TO YOU AS WELL.

WELL, AND WHY DO YOU WHY IS IT MORE IMPORTANT TO DO IT ON THE STREET VERSUS A GARAGE? WHAT'S THE LOGIC BEHIND THAT? WELL, I THINK I THINK WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM RESIDENTS IS, IS THEY THEY LIVE HERE.

THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THEIR FAVORITE RESTAURANT ON FIFTH.

AND THEY CAN'T FIND PARKING VERSUS HAVING SOMEBODY FROM THE COUNTY BE ABLE TO COME TO THEIR FAVORITE RESTAURANT.

BUT BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN THE COUNTY, THE CITY RESIDENT FEELS THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST.

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE THAT THEY JUST CAN'T FIND PARKING.

BUT IT'S ALSO INHERENTLY IN YOUR NATURE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE UP AND YOU CAN DRIVE RIGHT NEXT TO WHERE YOU ARE, YOU'RE NOT PULLING IN A GARAGE. IT'S A HALF BLOCK AWAY AND WALK DOWN THE STREET, SO PAYING PAID IN THE PARK PUSHES THEM TO THE GARAGE.

THEN THE GARAGE WOULD BE, IF YOU SAY, NOW I NEED TO QUANTIFY WHAT'S GETTING TO THE GARAGE IN ORDER TO TO EARN SOMETHING, TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU'D DO. BUT IT'S ALWAYS ON STREET FIRST BECAUSE THAT'S THE THOSE FILL UP FIRST THING IN THE MORNING, EVERY MORNING BEFORE THE GARAGES EVER DO. SO IT'S JUST THE INHERENT NATURE OF, OF PEOPLE MORE SO THAN ANYTHING.

OKAY, SO JUST TO TAG ON TO THAT, THAT'S ALSO BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF EMPLOYEE PARKING ON THE STREET.

WHICH IS A PROBLEM, WHICH IS WHY WE MUST LOOK AT EMPLOYEE PARKING.

THIS WOULD ALSO HELP THAT THOUGH. MAYOR. BECAUSE UNLESS EMPLOYEE, WHICH I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY EMPLOYEES THAT WORK ON FIFTH AVENUE LIVE IN THE CITY OF NAPLES. IF YOU DO THIS PARKING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND RESIDENT PARKING WOULD BE THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD PARKING THERE.

WE DO AN LPR READER. WHEN THEY'RE GOING DOWN, THEY'RE GOING TO PICK UP THOSE LICENSE PLATES OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE COUNTY OR LIVE IN LEE COUNTY THAT ACTUALLY WORK ON FIFTH AVENUE, AND THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PARK THERE ANY LONGER.

RIGHT. AND I'M I HEAR YOU, MR. YOUNG, ABOUT TAKING IT SLOW AND DOING ON STREET AND NOT THE GARAGE. BUT IF WE ARE IN REAL NEED OF A, ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY WE MIGHT WANT TO TALK ABOUT DOING THE GARAGE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A SOURCE OF INCOME BEING THAT WE ARE LIMITED THESE DAYS WITH, WE HAVE NO, NO PROBLEM WITH, WITH THE CHARGING OF IT.

AND I DON'T EVEN THINK IT WOULD BE A MATTER OF, OF YEARS.

IT WOULD JUST BE A MATTER OF, I THINK IF YOU CAN GET IT INSTALLED ON THE STREETS, YOU DO IT IMMEDIATELY.

[03:25:03]

I'M JUST. I'M THINKING IN MINIMAL PHASES, NOT LIKE DURATIONS OF YEARS FOR ANALYSIS, BUT BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.

I LIKE THE WAY YOU MAKE PROGRESS. BUT NORMALLY IT'S YEARS AROUND HERE.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. VICE MAYOR, THANKS.

SO QUESTION ON THE 1:00 TIME, HOW IS THAT DETERMINED TO START CHARGING AFTER ONE AS OPPOSED TO 11 A.M., YOU KNOW, TO CHARGE FOR LUNCH PARKING OR TO WAIT TILL 3 OR 4 P.M.

AND JUST CHARGE FOR DINNER? YEAH. AND THIS WAS AN OLDER DISCUSSION, SO I DO THAT'S WHY I SAID IF, IF MEG HAD A DIFFERENT, BUT I WOULD REVISIT WITH THE BIT.

I THINK THE INCENTIVE, THE NOTICE THE PART HERE FOR THEM WAS THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM NECESSARILY DURING THE DAY, EVEN DURING THE SEASON. THAT WAS PART OF THE CONTENTION, I BELIEVE, AND SAID SO IF IT STARTS RIGHT AFTER LUNCH OR JUST BEFORE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THAT WAS KIND OF THAT. THAT'S WHY I SAID I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS 1 OR 2.

AT THAT TIME, FRAME WAS. BUT I ACTUALLY BELIEVED IT WAS MORE OF A DINNER AND EVENING CROWD PROBLEM THAN IT WAS DURING THE DAY.

OKAY. YOU MIGHT JUST RETHINK AS PART OF THIS WHAT THE RIGHT TIME IS, BECAUSE CERTAINLY FURTHER WEST, PEOPLE ARE INCLINED TO PARK THERE AND GO TO THE BEACH.

SO IF THEY'RE FROM OUT OF TOWN AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO THE BEACH FOR A DAY, THEY PARK THERE FOR FREE NOW.

OR DEPENDING ON WHEN THE TIME IS, THEY MAY STILL TAKE UP THE PARKING SPACE THAT KEEPS PEOPLE FROM VISITING THE RESTAURANTS.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S ONE THING. AND THEN IN THE APP, IF FOR PAY BY APP, YOU CAN CHANGE THE LIKE HAVE ONE PRICE FOR SEASON AND ONE PRICE FOR OUT OF SEASON, RIGHT? SO IF WE WANTED TO STILL CHARGE OUT OF SEASON FOR PEOPLE GOING FOR DINNER, IT MIGHT BE A LOWER RATE PER HOUR SO THAT PEOPLE STILL COME TO THE RESTAURANTS OUT OF SEASON.

IF WE WANTED TO DO IT THAT WAY. YES. THE OTHER THING TOO, THAT WE HADN'T TOUCHED ON, WE WILL BRING BACK TO YOU, BUT I WILL TAKE A SHOT OVER THE BOW USING GARY'S TERMS OF SAYING THAT WE ALSO HAVE LOTS OF OTHER OPTIONS.

GOING BACK TO THE MAYOR'S POINT OF THE PARKING GARAGES, PARKING GARAGES ARE USED HEAVILY DURING SPECIAL EVENTS AT CAMBIER PARK.

AND SO ACTUALLY HAVING A FEE DURING SPECIAL EVENTS MAY BE SOMETHING YOU GUYS DESIRE TO ACTUALLY START PUTTING MONEY IN THE COFFERS.

YOU CAN DO THAT SIMULTANEOUSLY AND NOT IMPACT THE ACTUAL TESTING OF THE THE STREET PARKING.

LIKEWISE FOR WHAT YOU JUST SAID, YOU CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A LOWER PARKING FOR THE PARKING GARAGES FOR THOSE PARTICULAR THINGS.

GREAT. SO AND THEN HOW, HOW DOES THE SYSTEM VALIDATE WHETHER SOMEBODY TRULY IS A CITY RESIDENT OR NOT? CAN SOMEBODY JUST PLUG IN A CITY ADDRESS AND IT TRICKS THE SYSTEM.

SO SO THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY THEY HAVE TO UPLOAD A JUST LIKE WE DO CURRENTLY, BUT IT'S A, IT'S A PHYSICAL BODY SITTING THERE, YOU HAVE TO PHYSICALLY COME SHOW YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, SHOW YOUR REGISTRATION.

THEY HAVE TO MATCH IN THE SYSTEM. THEY HAVE TO UPLOAD THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE AND UPLOAD THE REGISTRATION.

THAT NOTIFICATION COMES TO A PERSON, THEY VALIDATE IT, AND THEN THEY ACTUALLY GET A NOTIFICATION SAYING THAT THEY'VE BEEN VALIDATED.

GOOD, THANKS. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE BID WOULD FAVOR PAID PARKING IF WE COULD HELP THEM FIND A WAY FOR EMPLOYEE PARKING TO BE DEALT WITH.

IT'S NOT EXPENSIVE. I THINK THAT THERE'D BE THE POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR THAT.

I WILL SAY, KNOWING A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO WORK HAVE WORKED HERE, INCLUDING FAMILY MEMBERS, IT'LL JUST IT'LL PUSH PEOPLE TO THE GARAGES, IS WHAT IT WILL DO UNTIL THE GARAGES ARE MAXED OUT.

WE NEED TO. WE NEED THAT TO BE OUR FOCUS. LET'S MAXIMIZE THE GARAGE USE BECAUSE WE MIGHT NOT HAVE THE PARKING PROBLEM WE THINK WE DO.

I KNOW THERE IS ONE, AND ESPECIALLY IN BIG EVENTS, BUT PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO THE GARAGE IF THEY CAN PARK NEXT TO WHEREVER THEY WORK OR WHAT, OR WANT TO EAT OR WHATEVER. AND IN THE IN THE MEANTIME, I'M RESPONDING TO THE CITIZENS LIKE I HEAR IT ALL THE TIME ABOUT IN SEASON, HOW THE FOLKS THAT PAY OUR PAY US AND VOTED FOR US CAN'T PARK NEAR SOMETHING THEY WANT TO PARK TO OR GO TO.

AND SO I'M TRYING TO KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE HERE.

AND TO GARY'S POINT, ONCE WE. THAT'S WHY IT'S DONE SEQUENTIALLY.

AND ONCE ONCE YOU START IMPLEMENTING IT ON STREET, YOU GOT TO SEE WHAT THE BEHAVIOR IS GOING TO CHANGE.

AND WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. AND SO WE DON'T KNOW. THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ARE MAYBE THEY'RE GOING TO WIND UP IN NEIGHBORHOODS WE DON'T WANT THEM IN. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT COULD HAPPEN. AND SO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.

BUT WE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE. AND I'M PERSONALLY, I'M COMMITTED TO TRYING TO MONETIZE PARKING IN THE CITY OF NAPLES.

[03:30:03]

THAT'S JUST CUSTOMARY. SEEMS LIKE WHEREVER YOU GO.

I LIKE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THE PAID PARKING, SO THANK YOU.

I, AND I AM NOT A PAID PARKING PERSON. I REALLY HAVE RESISTED IT.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS AND OLD TIMERS OF 40 YEARS HERE ALMOST.

WE'RE NOT ACCUSTOMED TO IT. SO YEAH, SO, BUT THE OTHER THING THAT'S VERY CONCERNING IS THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE PARKING ON FIFTH AVENUE AND WALKING TO THE BEACH. AND IT, IT, THERE'S A LOT.

I MEAN, THIRD STREET HAS ITS OWN ISSUE, BUT SO DOES FIFTH AVENUE.

AND IT'S. I'M SHOCKED AT THE THE LENGTH. PEOPLE WILL WALK WITH COOLERS AND CHAIRS. YEAH, YEAH. THEY DROPPED THE PEOPLE AND STUFF OFF.

AND THEN ONE PERSON GOES AND PARKS IT. IF YOU HAVE A NICE PERSON.

IF NOT YOU. I'VE WATCHED THEM. I'VE WATCHED THEM PARK RIGHT OVER HERE, RIGHT OVER HERE IN CAMBIER AND PACK THEIR LITTLE WAGON AND WALK ALL THE WAY DOWN.

BUT GOING BACK TO THIS PARTICULAR ON STREET PARKING MAYOR IS IF, IF WHAT WE BRING BACK IS AN ON STREET PARKING.

WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY A LOWER THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING BEACH PARKING FOR A NOMINAL FEE.

IF WE'RE DOING THAT, WE'RE DOING THE REGISTRATION OF RESIDENTS.

PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO A BUSINESS ARE PAYING, YOU KNOW, A SMALL NOMINAL FEE TO PARK THERE.

IT ELIMINATES YOUR ISSUE WITH HAVING BEACH PARKING BECAUSE NOW THEY COULD PAY THE $1.50 OR LET'S SAY IT'S $1.50 AND NOT $5 AN HOUR.

I'M NOT I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING, BUT YOU COULD STILL DO THAT.

BUT IF ALL OF THEM RESIDENT PARKING, THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE AVAILABILITY.

YEAH, IT'S JUST TRYING TO SEE WHO IS RANDOMLY PARKING THERE AND KEEPING TRACK OF IT.

AND THEN SOMEONE MENTIONED THE NUMBERS IN THE PARKING GARAGE.

OH, KRAMER. WE DO HAVE THE TICKER TAPE OR WHATEVER COUNTER THE COUNTER SO THAT WE CAN GET THAT DATA BECAUSE THE PARKING GARAGES ARE NOT YOU HAVE IT IN DURING THE SEASON, YOU KNOW, ANYTIME AFTER 2:00, YOU PROBABLY HAVE LESS THAN 40 IN THERE. AND BY 5:00 IT'S FOR DURING THE SEASON.

90% OF THE TIME, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I THINK THAT'LL BEAR OUT.

BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE AND I THINK GETTING SOONER RATHER THAN LATER SOMETHING BACK TO YOU.

I DO WANT TO HAVE A FOLLOW UP BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO PUT HER ON THE SPOT TODAY, BUT I DO WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE BID JUST SINCE IT WAS PROBABLY A YEAR SINCE WE LAST MET AND BUT, BUT THEN BRING YOU SOMETHING BACK AND, AND HAVE MOMENTUM ON IT, INCLUDING PRICES FOR YOU KNOW, INSTALLING THE LOWER SIGNS. AND BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO ALL OF THAT WORK ON THE STREET.

SO YEAH, THAT WOULD BE MY INTENT IS TO BRING YOU BACK SOMETHING WITHIN THE NEXT 30 DAYS AFTER HAVING HAD THIS DISCUSSION.

AND IF I MAY, AT THE RISK OF BEING A BUZZKILL WHEN THE PEER COMES BACK ONLINE, IT'S WELL, IT'S THE MOST VISITED SPOT IN SOUTHWEST FLORIDA. THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF IT. SO THAT'S ONLY GOING TO ADD TO IT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. AND REMEMBER, I TALKED TO YOU, ALL OF YOU, DURING THE BUDGET DISCUSSION THAT I WANT TO BRING BACK A PILOT PROGRAM ON LOUDERMILK BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT I WANT TO, I THINK I NEED TO HAVE IT ATTENDED FOR THIS SEASON SO THAT I DON'T HAVE CARS BACKING UP BECAUSE THE ONES ARE JUST DRIVING AROUND LOOKING FOR PARKING SPOTS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SERIES OF PARKING DISCUSSIONS.

THIS ONE WAS RELEVANT BECAUSE WE WERE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT FIFTH. BUT YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SERIES OF DISCUSSIONS AND HOPEFULLY THINGS WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE.

GUYS, BRING UP ONE. ONE OTHER POINT. IF WE GO TO A PAID MODEL, LIKE IN A GARAGE OR SOMETHING, WE HAVE A LOT OF NONPROFITS THAT HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND VOLUNTEER OR WORK AT VERY LOW, LOW WAGES. THAT WILL PROHIBIT THEM FROM, FROM TAKING THOSE POSITIONS.

AND THESE ENTITIES WHO NEED THESE PEOPLE WILL BE STRAINED.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT THE COMMUNITY THEATER, YOU KNOW, NAPLES PLAYERS YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS, A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOUNGER PEOPLE THAT THAT CAN'T AFFORD $20 TO PARK THEIR CAR.

I MEAN, QUITE HONESTLY, THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO COME AND IT'S GOING TO PUT A DRAIN ON, ON THOSE ANCHORS TO OUR COMMUNITY.

NAPLES ARTS SAME WAY. SO I WOULD, I WOULD JUST, IF THERE'S A WAY THE SYSTEM CAN HAVE EXEMPTION FOR SOME VOLUNTEERS FOR THE NONPROFITS WHERE THEY CAN GET WAIVED EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY. THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT. I WILL SAY, JOHN, I HAVEN'T DONE THAT STUFF, BUT ON PLENTY OF EVENTS THROUGH NONPROFITS, WE ALWAYS.

[03:35:01]

SO OR WHEREVER. SO WE WE COORDINATE WITH THE CHURCH AND USE THEIR PARKING LOT, FIND SOMEBODY WHOSE BUSINESS IS CLOSED AT THE TIME, USE THEIR PARKING LOT. AND WE PROVIDE SOMETIMES EVEN A BUS OR TO SHUTTLE PEOPLE OVER TO HELP.

AND, AND THEN ESPECIALLY WITH THE GOLF TOURNAMENT STUFF, I MEAN, IT'S JUST THAT IS JUST WHAT IT IS.

AND SO I THINK THERE'S A WAY OF GETTING IT DONE, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO JUST DO THE WORK IN ADVANCE TO, TO MAKE THAT SORT OF THING HAPPEN. HOPEFULLY MEG CAN COORDINATE THAT BECAUSE THERE IS THAT PROBLEM.

AND WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK. BUT MEG, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK BEFORE WE TAKE A BREAK? YES. THANKS. AM I ON? OKAY. MEG STEPANIAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE FIFTH AVENUE BID.

THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR AND COUNCIL AND GARY. YES.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT AS FAR AS THE PARKING AND PAID PARKING, THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN MOSTLY HIGH LEVEL.

CERTAINLY WE'RE ADDRESSING SEASONAL ISSUES. I WILL MAKE AVAILABLE TO YOU SOME SURVEY QUESTIONS THAT WE DID DO WITH OUR NEWSLETTER FOLKS. YOU KNOW, OUR E-BLAST FOR OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY FOR OUR NEWSLETTERS AND IT WAS NOT AS DETRIMENTAL AS FAR AS PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO FIND PARKING AS, AS YOU, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT.

I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY THE DECISIONS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THEM, THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE TRIGGERING IN MY BRAIN THAT ARE SAYING, OKAY, YES, WE WANT TO DO THAT, BUT THAT'S GOING TO HAVE THAT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE.

WHAT I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD IS A COMPREHENSIVE DISCUSSION WHERE WE COULD SPEAK FREELY, YOU KNOW, IN A IN A WORKSHOP FORMAT WITH SOME STAKEHOLDERS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, VOLUNTEERS IS CERTAINLY A VALID ISSUE, BUT SO IS OUR STAFF. AND, AND YES, THERE'S THERE'S ISSUES WITH STAFF AND STAFF PARKING, BUT WITHOUT STAFF AND STAFF PARKING, WE DON'T HAVE BUSINESSES THAT CAN SERVE FOLKS.

SO YOU KNOW, AND, AND IN SEASON VERSUS OUT OF SEASON, RIGHT.

WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, DOING THAT OUT OF SEASON, HAVING PAID PARKING OUT OF SEASON WOULD BE JUST A HUGE CHALLENGE FOR OUR BUSINESSES.

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE SPEND THE BID, SPENDS A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY TO PROMOTE A DINING PROGRAM OVER THE SUMMER.

AND IT HAS, YOU KNOW, WHILE IT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL, IT NEEDS TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.

AND SO ANYTHING THAT IS MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE THE DECISION TO COME DOWN HERE IS, IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL. GOSH, THERE'S SO MUCH RELAX.

FIRST HOUR FREE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD DISCUSSED.

AND THEN ALSO LATER BUT I THINK THAT OVERALL WITH ALL OF THE SUBJECTS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, I THINK THAT RESPECTFULLY, WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER THE SCOPE OF, OF WHAT PROBLEMS WE ARE LOOKING TO FIX.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE. SOME OF THE DISCUSSION DURING EVENTS IS THAT PEOPLE PARK EVERYWHERE.

WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A PROPER PARKING OPTION FOR THEM.

SO AT WHAT POINT DO WE REALLY NEED TO SHIFT TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MORE OPTIONS, INCLUDING I KNOW WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WHERE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, FOLKS FROM GULF SHORE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, DOES EVERYBODY WHO COMES DOWN FROM THE MIRACLE MILE NEED TO HAVE A PARKING SPACE ON THE AVENUE? IS THERE A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY TO GET TRAFFIC DOWN HERE FOR THAT? YOU KNOW, FOR THEM TO DINE AND ENJOY. IS IT THE I KNOW THAT THE CRA WE HAD TO ABANDON A CONVERSATION WITH REGARD TO THE SHUTTLE TYPE OF SITUATION, YOU KNOW, LUXURY SHUTTLE BUT SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

AND SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A FORUM WHERE WE CAN HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE IDEAS YOU BROUGHT UP HERE ARE EXCELLENT.

WHAT ARE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES? SO I FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS, THE BUSINESSES, THE STAFF AND YOU ALL. AND I KNOW THAT WE'VE, WE'VE, THAT'S BEEN ON THE AGENDA FOR A FEW YEARS.

AND IF WE COULD FIND A TIME TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD BE IDEAL.

BUT AGAIN, ANYTHING MAKING IT MORE RESTRICTIVE.

WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE PARKING 48 HOURS OR PARKING EIGHT HOURS.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BUYING THINGS, YOU KNOW, IN DINING, WE WANT THAT.

[03:40:05]

AND I WILL SAY THAT THE NEW OWNERS OF SEVERAL OF THE, YOU KNOW, BUILDINGS HERE HAVE BEEN BRINGING IN A LOT MORE RETAIL OPTIONS. SO WE HAD TWO RETAIL OPTIONS, OPEN STORES OPEN JUST LAST WEEK.

AND SO I, I'M, I'M PLEASED TO SAY THAT THAT BALANCE IS, IS, IS HAPPENING HERE ON THE AVENUE.

I'M SURE THERE'S MORE. SURE, THERE'S MORE DISCUSSIONS, BUT I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW.

YOU CAN AGAIN, WITH REGARD TO SCOPE, I THINK THAT ALL OF THE OPTIONS WITH REGARD TO OUTDOOR DINING IS IMPORTANT. WHEN WE COME TO THE DISCUSSION OF CONGESTION FOR OUTDOOR DINING AND PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AND PRIVATE.

THERE ARE TWO AREAS I THINK THAT ARE THAT REALLY FACE SOME CONGESTION ISSUES.

SO CAN WE ADDRESS THOSE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS OR DOES IT NEED TO BE SWEEPING? SO WHEN I'VE DONE THAT, IN FACT, I'LL NEED TO REVISIT MY ANALYSIS THAT I HAD PREPARED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

BUT. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE AREAS WHERE IT'S, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE AT ALL.

AND IT CREATES THAT, THAT ENVIRONMENT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS, IS GETTING THAT SOLUTION AS FAR AS NOISE AND NOISE ABATEMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A BEAUTIFUL DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.

WE HAVE WONDERFUL PROBLEMS THAT MOST CITY CENTERS WISH THEY HAD.

AND WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE THEM BECAUSE YOU GUYS HAVE HAVE WORKED AND CREATED THIS OVERLAY DISTRICT TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT WE WANTED TO MAKE THIS AREA PROFITABLE AND FRUITFUL AND, AND A BEAUTIFUL PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO ENJOY THE CULTURE OF OUR CITY.

AND WE'VE DONE JUST THAT. SO WANT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY SWEEPING OR, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT THE UNDERSTANDING OF SCOPE. SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I'M SURE THE NEXT FEW ITEMS I'LL JUST KEEP YOUR TELL ME IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK UP. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. AS FAR AS THE PARKING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HANDFUL OF OWNERS ON FIFTH AVENUE AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GETTING RECORD RENT LEVELS, 120 A SQUARE NOW HEADING TO 150, WHATEVER.

IS THERE A PRIVATE SECTOR SOLUTION TO A PARKING GARAGE? THAT IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS? WELL, I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS THINKING OF IS ERICA WAS TALKING ABOUT THE ENCUMBRANCES ON THAT SURFACE LOT IS DO YOU WANT TO CONTROL THE GARAGE OR IS THAT SOMETHING, IS SOMEBODY ELSE GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CONTROL OVER? SO I DON'T KNOW. I CERTAINLY WE CAN CONSIDER WHAT THE PRIVATE SOLUTIONS ARE.

I MEAN, THE PRIVATE SOLUTIONS ARE TRUTHFULLY, WE NEED MORE.

WE NEED WE NEED THAT THIRD LEG OF THE STOOL. SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE PARKING ON THE STREETS OR PEOPLE PARKING IN THOSE AREAS WHERE PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEM PARKING ON THEIR, THEIR, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY THAT WHERE WE HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE PARKING SPACES.

WE NEED TO, I WILL SAY ANECDOTALLY THAT THIS COMMUNITY FOR A LONG TIME HAS BEEN BLESSED WITH PULLING UP IN FRONT OF WHEREVER THEY WANT TO BE ON FIFTH AVENUE. AND WE, WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A, OF AN ESSENCE OF, AND I'M GUILTY OF IT TOO THAT, YOU KNOW, OH, I JUST NEED TO PULL UP AND, AND GET OUT AND GO.

AND WE'VE BEEN SPOILED FOR A LONG TIME. SO I WILL SAY THAT NOW I KNOW MY WAY AROUND, I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND THOSE SPACES THAT ARE NOT ON PEOPLE'S PROPERTY.

BUT SO I THINK IT'S A CULTURAL, I THINK IT'S A CULTURAL THING AS WELL.

IT IS A CHANCE I WAS HAVING WENT TO SARASOTA FOR DINNER AND, YOU KNOW, WENT TO THE GARAGE AND IT WAS LIKE TEN MINUTES ON THE APP ON MY PHONE, GETTING THE SIGNAL AND THIS AND THAT. AND IT'S LIKE, WE TALK ABOUT PHONE SIGNAL PROBLEMS DOWNTOWN.

AND THEN I JUST IT REALLY CREATES A LEVEL OF AGGRAVATION THAT RUINS THE EXPERIENCE, QUITE HONESTLY.

WELL, AND IT IS A TIP. I MEAN, IT'S A CAREFUL CONSIDERATION BECAUSE YES, WE WANT OUR BUSINESSES TO NOT HAVE A CAR PARKED IN FRONT OF IT FOR EIGHT HOURS.

WE WANT THAT TURNOVER. BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THIS IS NOT A TOWN THAT LIKES TO BE NICKELED AND DIMED.

[03:45:06]

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY STILL HAVE THAT THERE, BUT IT WAS A VERY POPULAR THING.

SO YEAH, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A CAREFUL BALANCE. AND I TRULY THINK, GARY, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, HAVE, HAVE THE PLANNING AND BE ABLE TO JUST FREELY DISCUSS WHAT TRIGGERS SOMETHING ELSE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA, BUT IT MIGHT TRIGGER SOMETHING ELSE. AND WE'RE WE'RE OPPOSED TO EXPLORING HOW WE GET THERE.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MISS DOUGLAS, DO YOU NEED ANY FURTHER? OKAY. AND THEN, MISS MARTIN, WHERE WE ARE IN THE MEMO.

TWO TOPICS LEFT. ONE IS THE BALLET. AND THAT'S THE THE DISTRICT PERMITS, NOT INDIVIDUAL BALLET, BUT THAT'S JUST BALLET AS A CONCEPT ON FIFTH AVE.

AND THEN WE HAD A LITTLE STAFF INITIATED DISCUSSION ON ALLEYWAYS, WHICH COULD BE PRETTY BRIEF.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE BALLET. THE ALLEYWAY ONE IS COULD BE BRIEF, BUT IT CAN BE BRIEF.

THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT I BELIEVE EVERYBODY WHO'S HERE FOR THIS IS ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO BE HERE FOR THE PILOT ONE.

YES. SO IN TERMS OF IF YOU STOPPED AT THIS POINT TO HAVE YOUR LUNCH, MA'AM, AND CAME BACK, IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WILL BE AT THE NEXT ITEM DISCUSSION AS WELL.

SO I JUST DIDN'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT THAT WAS A HINDRANCE FOR US TAKING A BREAK SHOULD YOU DESIRE.

TRUE STORY. WELL, I COULD KEEP GOING, YOU KNOW THAT, BUT I HAVE I WANT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

WE CAN BE BRIEF IN OUR BREAK. WE CAN SWITCH THESE TWO AROUND IF YOU WANT TO DO THE ALLEYWAY ONE, THAT'S PROBABLY FASTER. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE VALET. I DON'T KNOW COUNCIL'S INTENT, BUT. WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT ROOFTOP FIRST.

WELL, THAT'S A SEPARATE AGENDA ITEM. YEAH. I WAS ONLY SAYING IS, IS YOU HAD MENTIONED GOING ON BREAK BEFORE YOU BROUGHT MEG, AND THEN SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TWO REMAINING.

I THINK WE STAY ON THIS ITEM. OKAY. IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A BREAK, WE'LL COME BACK AND WE'LL START RIGHT HERE WHERE WE ARE.

WE'LL FINISH THOSE AND GO TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.

I JUST DIDN'T WANT YOU TO NOT TAKE A BREAK. AS IF WE WERE TRYING TO GET STAFF MEMBERS OUT OF THE ROOM, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL COMING BACK FOR THE PILOT PROGRAM. I REALIZE THAT WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, SO YEAH. OR I WAS GOING TO GIVE YOU 20 MINUTES.

GOOD. OKAY, THEN WE WILL TAKE A 20 MINUTE BREAK FOR LUNCH.

OKAY, WE'RE BACK FROM LUNCH, AND WE'RE CONTINUING ON WITH ITEM FIVE C.

SO THIS IS THE NEXT TOPIC. WE HAVE TWO MORE TOPICS LEFT RELATED TO THE FIFTH AVE OVERLAY ON THIS AGENDA MEMO.

THE NEXT ONE IS VALET PARKING. SO ALLISON BICKETT PUBLIC WORKS HAS PREPARED THE STATEMENT THAT'S IN YOUR AGENDA MEMO.

YOU'LL SEE THERE WERE THREE NAMES AT THE TOP. NOT JUST MINE.

SO THIS IS ALLISON WILL TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE DISTRICT VALET PERMITS IN FIFTH AVE.

OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL.

ALLISON BICKETT, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS ON THE THIS DISCUSSION THAT REALLY DOVETAILS IN TO THE PRIOR DISCUSSION RELATING TO THE PARKING THIS THIS TOPIC IS RELATING TO THE VALET SERVICES.

AND WITHIN THE FIFTH AVENUE DISTRICT, THE VALET PARKING OR THE VALET CRITERION CODE WAS WITHIN SECTION 36-67 OF THE CITY CODE AND SECTION 17 OF THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS ORDINANCE AND HANDBOOK THAT GOVERNS THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE FOR FIFTH AVENUE.

WE HAVE TWO VALET OPERATORS THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY PERMITTED TO OPERATE.

THE FIRST ONE I WILL IS NOT ON THE SCREEN RIGHT HERE, BUT VALET ONE IS ONE THAT HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FOR SOME TIME.

WE PREVIOUSLY BROUGHT THEM INTO COMPLIANCE IN NOVEMBER OF 2017 UNDER THE A RESOLUTION THAT IS INCLUDED WITHIN YOUR PACKET. WITHIN THAT THAT THE VALLEY ONE OPERATIONS OPERATES AT SUGDEN OFF OF FOURTH.

THEY'VE BEEN OPERATING WITH FREE COMPLIMENTARY SERVICES FOR THE OPERATIONS FOR A COUPLE OF THE DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS FOR TRULUX AND OCEANS PRIME AS WELL AS FOR THE THEATER VISITORS IN THAT AREA. THERE IS A, WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THERE IS ACTUALLY A VALET DROP OFF PICK UP AREA THAT YOU'LL NOTICE BEHIND THE THEATER IN THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION. AND THEN THE LARGER PRIMARY VALET SERVICE IS UNDER VALET PROS, WHICH YOU'VE PROBABLY ARE MORE FAMILIAR

[03:50:08]

THEY'VE BEEN IN OPERATION SINCE 2013. THEIR APPROVAL HAS BEEN INITIALLY GRANTED UNDER RESOLUTION. RESOLUTION 13133375. AT THAT TIME THEY WERE AS ONLY THREE VALLEY OPERATION OR VALLEY STATIONS THAT OPERATED THREE DAYS A WEEK, THURSDAY THROUGH SATURDAY.

AND OVER TIME, THAT VALLEY OPERATIONS HAS EXPANDED ALONG THE AVENUE.

THEY ARE REQUIRED WITH THESE VALLEY OPERATIONS AS PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT I NOTED ABOVE WITHIN OUR CODE THAT THEY HAVE THEY THEY MUST SECURE PRIVATE PARKING AREAS.

SO THEY MUST WORK WITH THE BUSINESSES. FOR ALL OF THESE, THESE LOCATIONS, THE, THE ONE, THE FIRST LOCATION THAT I MENTIONED AT SUGDEN THEY HAVE ONE ONE VALET STAND THAT OPERATES THE OTHER LOCATION FOR VALET PROS HAS SEVEN, AND EACH OF THOSE HAVE THEIR OWN PARKING AREAS THAT ARE NOTATED WITHIN THE APPROVALS.

THE VALET PROSE OPERATES SEVEN DAYS A WEEK AT THIS TIME.

WE JUST MORE RECENTLY APPROVED THE ANNUAL AGREEMENT THAT THAT AGREEMENT IN RESOLUTION IS ONE THAT COMES BEFORE YOU EVERY THREE YEARS, ACCORDING TO THE MOST RECENT 2024 RESOLUTION THAT WAS PASSED.

THAT IS IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO RE REEVALUATE THEIR OPERATIONS.

AND ANNUALLY, THE CITY MANAGER PROVIDES HAS UNDER THAT APPROVAL, HAS ALLOWANCES AND IS ABLE TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THOSE RIGHT OF WAY PERMITS ANNUALLY AND EVALUATE TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS OR CONCERNS THAT WE CAN ASSURE SURE TO ADDRESS THEM AND AT THAT TIME THAT WE HAVE NOT HAD WE'VE HAD SOME MINOR COMPLAINTS FOR THOSE VALET OPERATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED OVER THE YEARS, BUT GENERALLY THEY'VE BEEN WELL OPERATED, THEY HAVE BEEN SUPPORTED BY THE BID. AND THAT'S BEEN THEIR PRIMARY APPROVAL.

I THINK IT, WHEN I MENTIONED THE 2013 ORIGINAL APPROVAL, I THINK THAT WAS BASED UPON THE FIFTH AVENUE BID AT THAT TIME HAD ESSENTIALLY REACHED OUT AND LOOKED FOR DIFFERENT PROVIDERS.

AND AT THAT TIME THAT'S WHEN THEY HAD SELECTED THE VALET PROS AND THEY'VE, THEY'VE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THEIR VALET OPERATIONS SINCE THAT TIME.

THERE'S BEEN SOME INTEREST IN OTHER VALETS APPROACHING, I UNDERSTAND THE, THE FIFTH AVENUE BID TO TAKE OVER THAT AGREEMENT, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT IS USUALLY PRESENTED TO YOU EVERY A FEW YEARS WITHOUT AGREEMENT ENDING NEXT YEAR. SO YOU WILL SEE THAT IN IN ADVANCE OF THE NOVEMBER 2027 EXPIRATION.

AND THIS THIS KIND OF LEADS INTO THE, THE DISCUSSION THAT WE CAN HAVE IN ADVANCE OF THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING AND TRY TO WORK WITH THOSE VALLEY OPERATIONS IN ADVANCE OF THAT EXPIRATION DATE APPROACHING WITH THAT, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS HAPPY TO ANSWER THOSE.

BUT AGAIN, THE, THE VALLEY OPERATIONS DOES OPERATE TO SECURE THOSE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES THEY'VE PROVIDED IN YOUR REPORT.

UP TO, I BELIEVE THE VALLEY PROS HAS APPROXIMATELY 600 PRIVATE SPACES THAT THEY SECURE AND VALET ONE HAS, I BELIEVE THERE'S TWO MAIN LOTS AND THEN AN OVERFLOW LOT THAT THEY OPERATE FOR SECURING THOSE PRIVATE PARKING SPACES FOR THE PUBLIC, FOR THEIR VALET OPERATIONS. ONE IS 600W, THE OTHER, THEY HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY CAN SECURE OVER 600 PARKING SPACES ON LOTS THAT THEY HAVE INSECURE.

AND THEN VALET ONE HAS I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT NUMBER, BUT I KNOW THEY HAVE TWO LOTS THAT THEY HAVE RESERVED AND THEN THEY HAVE AN OVERFLOW LOT THAT THEY ALSO UTILIZE IF NEED BE FOR THE PRIVATE PARKING.

SO I WOULD ASSUME PROBABLY AROUND 1000 PARKING SPACES BASED ON THE NUMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED.

DO WE GET ANY OF THE WE DO NOT. NOTHING AT ALL.

[03:55:03]

VALET PROS THEY DO HAVE A CHARGE FOR THE PARKING FEES.

I THINK THE LAST NUMBER THAT I RECEIVED IS ABOUT $10 THAT THEY SECURE FOR PER OPERATOR PER VEHICLE.

THAT'S WHAT I JUST PAID THE OTHER DAY SAID. YES.

KRAMER, DID YOU TELL US HOW MANY BASE NUMBERS, HOW MANY PUBLIC SPACES WE OWN? THEY USE. SO THEY ONLY. THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED PER THE.

THE VALET OR PER THE CODES. THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO UTILIZE PRIVATE PARKING SPACES.

NOW HOWEVER. HOWEVER SEVERAL OF THESE LOCATIONS WE DO ALLOW PER THE CODE TO RESERVE UP TO THREE ON STREET PARKING SPACES THAT THEY CAN BLOCK UP TO.

AND THOSE ARE NOT ALLOWED. THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED. YOU CAN SEE THESE ARE NOT EXACTLY THEY ARE NOT ON FIFTH AVENUE, AND THE CODE DOES NOT PERMIT THEM TO BE ON THOSE VALET STATIONS, TO BE ON FIFTH AVENUE, BUT THEY ARE JUST OFF OF FIFTH AVENUE.

AND THEN WE DO HAVE THOSE MARKED. THEY ARE PERMITTED WITH THE TIME FRAMES BEFORE AND AFTER PER THEIR RESOLUTION PER THE, THE CONDITIONS OF THE PERMIT AND RESOLUTION. YEAH.

SO I'M JUST SO JUST IN TERMS OF REVENUE FOR THE CITY, IF THEY'RE PARKING CARS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE NEGOTIATING RENT WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS, WE WOULDN'T GET ANY REVENUE FROM THAT ANYWAY. SHOULDN'T THE ONLY REVENUE WE COULD EXPECT WOULD BE IF THEY'RE USING PUBLIC SPACES, CORRECT? AM I RIGHT THINKING THAT IT IS? BUT AGAIN, THE DISCUSSION HAS COME UP IN THE PAST AS FAR AS HOW, YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE RECEIVE A PORTION OF THE FUNDS AND ALL THAT'S BEEN A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION.

BUT YES, I THINK IT'S ULTIMATELY COME DOWN TO THEY'VE SECURED THAT.

THEY'VE ALSO BEEN CHARGED WITH SECURING THOSE PRIVATE PARKING, THOSE PRIVATE LOTS.

AND THEN THEY, I'M SURE THERE'S, THEY HAVE TO, BUT ESSENTIALLY THAT'S AT THEIR EXPENSE.

SO IF THERE WERE COMPENSATION COMPENSATION IN MY MIND, IT WOULD BE FOR THE THREE SPACES THAT WE LET THEM BLOCK OFF FOR THE PULL UP AND PULL OUT.

YES. OKAY. BUT YES, UNDERSTANDING THE PUBLIC BENEFIT AND ALLOWING WITH, WITH THE, THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED AS FAR AS THE LIMITED PARKING THAT'S AVAILABLE. YEAH. THANK YOU. QUESTION THOSE PARKING LOTS BEHIND THE BRITISH TEA ROOM.

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THE ALLEYWAY. THEN THERE'S THOSE PARKING LOTS BACK THERE. ARE THERE USED TO BE ALWAYS OPEN FOR FREE PARKING.

LIKE OPEN PARKING. AND NOW THE VALET CONTROLS THEM.

I MEAN, WHAT I'M NOTICING, THEY'RE TAKING AWAY WHERE THE PUBLIC USED TO PARK, AND NOW THEY CONTROL IT.

SO I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, YOU WEAR THOSE LOTS.

I'M NOT SURE WHO OWNS THEM. I THINK THERE'S THERE'S 3 OR 4 LOTS THAT ARE DIFFERENTLY OWNED BACK IN THERE.

OKAY. THOSE ARE THE PRIVATE LOTS. YES. THEY'RE PRIVATE.

YEAH. THEY'RE PRIVATE LOTS. THAT'S WHAT I THINK.

YES. BY THIRD AND SIX, THEY WERE LIKE OPEN PARKING FOR DECADES.

YOU KNOW, ANYBODY COULD. AND NOW THEY'RE ROPED OFF FOR VALET, YOU KNOW.

SO YES. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT COMES BECAUSE IT IS ESSENTIALLY ON BEHALF OF THE THE PROPERTY OWNER THAT THEY COULD BLOCK THAT OFF TO NOT NOT ACTUALLY PERMIT THOSE THAT PARKING FOR THE PUBLIC. BUT NOW THEY, THEY CLEARLY THEY EARN MONEY OFF OF YOU KNOW, RENTING THIS OUT TO THE VALLEY OPERATORS. I'LL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE. IF I WERE A BUSINESS OWNER AND I OWN THOSE LOTS, NOBODY'S GOING TO PARK IN THERE WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.

AND IF I WASN'T RUNNING INTO THE VALLEY, I'D HAVE THEM ROPED OFF.

BECAUSE THE FIRST THING, AS SOON AS YOU OPEN UP FOR PUBLIC PARKING, THEY'RE GOING TO RUN OVER SOME KID AND THEY'RE GOING TO SUE YOU BECAUSE THEY WERE PARKING IN YOUR PARKING LOT. SO PRIVATE PROPERTY IS PRIVATE PROPERTY HERE, FOLKS.

AND IF YOU'RE IF BUSINESS 101, YOU'RE LIABLE FOR ANYTHING THAT TAKES PLACE ON THAT PROPERTY.

AND IF YOU'VE GOT THEM OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S YOUR MISTAKE.

SECONDLY. SECONDLY, THEY SHOULDN'T BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOW AVAILABLE FOR PARKING IS A SERVICE FOR THE CITY.

WHETHER THEY'RE THEY'RE MAKING MONEY OFF IT OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT.

THEY'RE SELLING THE RIGHTS TO PARK THERE TO THE VALET.

THE VALET, IN TURN, IS STILL PROVIDING THOSE LOTS FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION.

IT'S AT A FEE, BUT IT'S STILL PUBLIC. DEAL STRUCK WITH LIKE THE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT WHERE THEY HAD TO KEEP THEIR PARKING OPEN.

THE PRIVATE TO EVERYBODY. THE DOWNTOWN HAS A SPECIFIC PROVISION IN THEIR CODE THAT DOES NOT THAT DOES NOT PERMIT THE RESTRICTION OF COMMERCIAL PARKING,

[04:00:02]

I SEE A PARKING PROBLEM AND I SEE VALET LOT THAT'S NOT FILLED, YOU KNOW, QUARTER, YOU KNOW, A FEW CARS IN IT AND PEOPLE LOOKING TO PARK, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT DON'T WANT TO USE VALET.

AND I THINK IT'S A PROBLEM PERSONALLY, MY RESPONSE TO THAT PERSON WOULD BE, THERE'S A PARKING GARAGE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET THAT'S FREE OF CHARGE.

YOU DON'T NEED TO PARK IN THAT IN THAT PAY FOR VALET, THE GUY THAT WANTS TO SPEND THE TEN BUCKS SO HE CAN PARK IN FRONT OF THE RESTAURANT, HE'S GOING TO THAT'S EIGHT STEPS AWAY. THAT'S HIS PREROGATIVE. YOU SPEND TEN BUCKS. THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE $10 WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT A PLACE FOR THEM TO PARK TO FREE OF CHARGE, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AT THE. I'M TALKING HIGH SEASON.

I UNDERSTAND, I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S NOT A I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S NOT PARKING PROBLEM. OKAY. LET'S ACCEPT THAT THERE IS WE ALL WE ALL ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T THINK THERE'S PARKING PROBLEM. THEY'RE LIVING IN LA LA LAND. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT TO THE VALETS ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, AND THAT PRIVATE PROPERTY WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE IF THOSE VALETS HAD NOT SECURED THAT PRIVATE PROPERTY FOR THE USE OF PARKING.

IF THE PRIVATE. IF THE VALETS WERE NOT RENTING THOSE THOSE PARKING LOTS FROM THE OWNER OF THAT PARKING LOT, THOSE THOSE SPACES WOULD NOT NECESSARILY AND PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE PUBLIC USE.

WELL, THEY WERE FOR DECADES, BUT NOW THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, BUT BUT WE ARE IN NO POSITION AS MUNICIPALITY TO TURN AROUND AND TELL THAT GUY THAT OWNS THAT PUBLIC THAT THAT, THAT PARKING LOT TO QUIT SELLING IT TO THE VALET AND OPEN IT FOR PUBLIC USE.

THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT A SOLUTION. THAT CAN'T HAPPEN.

THE BUILDING OWNER AND HIS HE'S NOW PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO PARK AT HIS BUILDING.

THEY THEY HE PUT IT INTO VALET. HE'S PUSHING IT ON TO THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR PARKING NOW.

IS THAT FAIR? I DON'T THINK HE HAS A BIG BILL.

OH, LET'S LET'S ALL RENT OUT OUR PARKING LOTS AND HAVE THE CITY OF NAPLES BUILT MORE GARAGES.

IS THAT IS THAT A SOLUTION? WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T YEAH, IT IS A SOLUTION.

BUT THE POINT IS, IF SOMEBODY OWNS THAT PROPERTY, THEY CAN DO WITH IT AS THEY SEE FIT.

THEY ARE THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND THEY HAVE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THEY HAVE THEY'RE ALSO LIABLE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS ON THAT PROPERTY.

SO AGAIN SITTING HERE, SITTING UP HERE AND TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS SHOULD OPEN UP THEIR, THEIR SPACE TO, TO THE PUBLIC IS THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT A SOLUTION.

AND IF I WERE, IF I WERE A PERSON THAT OWNS THAT PARKING LOT, I WOULD, I LITERALLY, I WOULD FIND IT COMICAL BECAUSE YOU'RE LITERALLY SAYING, USE YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE LIABLE FOR SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PARK IN IT BECAUSE WE HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM.

THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT, NOT A SOLUTION. AND LISTEN, I'VE ARGUED THAT FOR YEARS, BUT IT'S TOO LATE.

I MEAN, IT, IT'S THE CHANGE THAT HAPPENED, THE EVOLUTION THAT HAPPENED.

AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT THE CAT BACK IN THE BAG.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SO IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

WE ALL CAN SAY WE KNEW WHERE TO PARK WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE TO VALET OR SOON TO PAY TO PARK.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE CHANGING POLICIES, AND I'M WITH YOU.

I WOULD WE NOT BE ABLE TO GET A LICENSING FEE OR A CONCESSION FROM THE VENDOR IN THIS CASE, THE VALET PROS. I DON'T THINK THAT FOR THE RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN ASK A PRIVATE OWNER TO TALK ABOUT THE VALET.

YEAH. THE VALET COMPANY. I THINK THE ONLY WAY WOULD BE THAT WE CHARGE THEM FOR OUR RIGHT OF WAY AND MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE PROPER INSURANCE TO PROTECT US.

YOU HAVE A LICENSE TO OPERATE IN THE CITY OF NAPLES.

WELL, THAT IS A THAT'S CURRENTLY NOT ALONE. WHAT HAPPENS? BUT. YES. SO. SO YOU RECEIVE COMPENSATION FROM THEM OR NOT? NO. BUT THEY ADD US AS AN ADDITIONAL INSURED.

THEY SIGN A RIGHT OF WAY LICENSE AGREEMENT AS PART OF THE RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT THAT THEY RECEIVE FROM COUNCIL.

THEY PROVIDE A VALET PLAN THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY COUNCIL.

THERE'S A LOT OF LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS IF THEY VIOLATE THE VALET PLAN, IT GIVES THE CITY MANAGER TO EITHER STOP THE OPERATIONS OR ALLOW THEM TO CORRECT IT BEFORE IT COMES BACK TO COUNCIL. SO FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, PROTECTION WISE, BECAUSE THIS AGREEMENT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WE ALWAYS USED, I FEEL A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THEM OPERATING ON THE RIGHT OF WAY COMPARED TO PEOPLE OUTDOOR DINING ON IT, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO PROTECTION THERE. THAT'S THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE, IS OKAY FOR THE ABILITY TO OPERATE THAT BUSINESS AT ALL.

THERE'S NOT ANY COMPENSATION TO THE CITY FOR ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE THE CONCESSION TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE THE THE RIGHT OF WAY FEE, AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A FRANCHISE LICENSING FEE AS WELL.

I THINK THE LICENSING FEE IS RIGHT AROUND $1,000.

THANK YOU. ANNUALLY. I BELIEVE I HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK.

THAT GOES. SO, MR. YOUNG, THE ONLY THING I WAS GOING TO SAY IS IT PROVIDES IT DOES PROVIDE A PUBLIC SERVICE IN THE SENSE IS THAT WITHOUT

[04:05:06]

SO THEREFORE THIS IS HOW IT'S ADMINISTERED. IN THE SAME TOKEN, WE DO GET A BENEFIT BECAUSE IT KEEPS THE FIFTH AVENUE VIBRANT. AND VALET IS WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT. AND AND SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, IT'S MINIMAL.

IT'S MINIMAL RIGHT OF WAY USAGE. AND I I'M ALL FOR BRINGING BACK TO YOU EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE DO COLLECT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT MINIMALLY, JUST AS AS A OUTDOOR DINING IN THE RIGHT OF WAY SHOULD BE.

BECAUSE I THINK THE COST IS MORE ABOUT SELF CONTAINING IT AND PROVIDING A PUBLIC SERVICE AT THE SAME TIME TO KEEP THOSE BUSINESSES VIBRANT, WHICH IS WHAT FIFTH AVENUE WAS DESIGNED TO BE.

AND SO I SAY THAT BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE IS THE ONES WHO HAVE WERE LOSING LOTS THAT CAN EVEN HANDLE THESE PARKINGS.

AND WHEN THOSE IF THOSE LOTS GO AWAY, SHAME ON US BECAUSE WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO PARK ANYBODY.

AND SO THOSE LOTS ARE A PIVOTAL FUNCTION THAT WE HAVE.

SO SPARING A FEW SPOTS BY THESE STATIONS TO ACCOMPANY ACCOMPLISH THIS, I THINK IS WORTHWHILE FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE TO, TO ENCOURAGE THOSE LOTS TO REMAIN THE WAY THEY ARE, AT LEAST IN THE SHORT RUN UNTIL WE'VE COME UP WITH A LOCATION TO HAVE OTHER PARKING.

WELL, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA THAT WE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THE.

YEAH. I THINK WE CAN COME BACK WITH ALL OF THAT IS.

BUT TO THE BIGGER PICTURE IS TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT COULD HAPPEN IN ANY DAY.

AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T HAVE THOSE LOTS THAT ARE BEING USED.

AND THAT WOULD BE A, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR AND ONCE IT'S BUILT OUT.

SPEAKING OF WHICH, WHAT IS THE BUILD OUT OF FIFTH AVENUE AND THE PARKING NEEDS THAT IT ACTUALLY WILL NEED ONCE IT'S BUILT OUT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION WE CAN HAVE.

YES, MAYOR AND I, AND THAT'S WHY I ALSO AGREE THAT THE, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK MEG ALLUDED TO IT IS THE, YOU KNOW, THE THIRD STOOL, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION. BUT IF WE DON'T LOOK AT IT, ALL THE OTHER THINGS IS ABOUT HOW TO GET INCREMENTAL MONETARY VALUE IF WE DON'T FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER PARKING LOCATION, THE REST OF IT'S FEEDING A MONSTER.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE END GAME IS AND US LOSING THOSE LOTS.

IF YOU JUST PICTURE THAT LOSING TWO OF THE LOTS THAT THEY'RE USING RIGHT NOW, THEY GO AWAY.

SHAME ON US IF WE DON'T HAVE A BIGGER. SO I THINK WE NEED TO GET.

WHAT IS THAT SPOT WE'RE GOING TO USE? WHERE DO WE AGREE TO GO NOW? HOW DO WE GET THERE? BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IF WE KEEP KICKING A CAN DOWN THE ROAD IS IF YOU BUILD IT THERE, THEY WILL COME. THAT THEORY IS GONE. THEY'RE COMING NO MATTER WHAT.

AND WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO, TO DO IT.

AND IF THOSE LOTS START DEVELOPING THEMSELVES, WE'RE IN A WORLD OF HURT AND REAL QUICKLY.

AND THEN SOMETHING THAT WE DISCUSSED AND WE MADE A DECISION, BUT WE WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT'S HAPPENING ALREADY AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SURE WE PUT THE POLICIES AROUND.

IT IS THE. MICRO. MICRO. TRANSIT.

MICRO MOBILITY. MICRO. TRANSIT. AND. IF THESE HOTELS ARE SHUTTLING PEOPLE OR IF THERE'S GOING TO BE SOMEBODY THAT SHUTTLES PEOPLE FROM A PRIVATE BUSINESS.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO ACCOMMODATE IT AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO IT SAFELY WHILE ALLOWING HOPEFULLY THAT IT TAKES LESS PARKING WITH THE GROWTH THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING.

SO THAT'S THE BIGGER PICTURE THAT HAS TO BE INCORPORATED IN THIS.

AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT A DISCUSSION NOW, RIGHT? WE'RE STILL ON BALLET. IS THAT, IS THAT IN THIS? NO, I THINK WHAT WE WANTED TO DO HERE WAS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIFTH AVENUE, AND THIS EXPIRES IN OCTOBER OF 2027. WE'RE GOING TO BE COMING BACK TO YOU IN MAY AND JUNE AND FOLLOWING UP WITH THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

SO IT WAS IMPORTANT TO PUT THIS INFORMATION IN FRONT OF YOU.

SO YOU HAVE IT AS WE GET READY TO APPROACH THAT TIME.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO KICK THAT MICRO TRANSIT TO THE SIDE.

THAT IS IMPORTANT. IT IS MICRO TRANSIT IS EXPECTED TO COME BACK TO YOU WITHIN THE NEXT 60 DAYS.

[04:10:04]

RIGHT. BUT WE MADE A DECISION THAT. ONLY BECAUSE IT WASN'T FULLY BAKED.

IT REALLY WAS VERY COMPLICATED. AND WHO IS GOING TO OPERATE IT? WHERE WILL IT OPERATE? AND THEN ONCE THE CRA GOES OUT, IS THE CITY GOING TO BE IN THE BUSINESS OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION? SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A IT'S A VISIONARY LONG TERM PLANNING CONVERSATION.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT TOPICS. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.

SO SO WHEN THE MICRO TRENDS AND THEN HAVING AND THEN HAVING REGISTERED PROVIDERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT IS A LICENSING ASPECT. THE ONE THING THAT THE CRA DID WAS AND THEY SAID, ARE YOU GOING TO PUT FORTH A PROGRAM THAT I THINK THE COST ESTIMATES FOR LIKE 800,000? AND THE CRA SAID, NO, THAT'S NOT IN OUR.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I DELINEATED BETWEEN THE TWO.

ONE IS BRINGING THE ORDINANCE BACK WITH POLICIES, LICENSING, ETC.

THE OTHER ONE IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE GOING TO PAY TO HIRE SOMEBODY TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES.

SO I JUST WANTED TO DELINEATE THAT. SO WITH THAT, WE'LL GO BACK TO THE VALET.

AND IS THERE OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT VALET. YEAH.

QUESTION ON THE VALET. SO WHEN THEY COME BACK FOR RENEWAL IN A YEAR'S TIME, DO THEY SAY THAT THEY SAY THEY HAVE 600 SPACES.

DO THEY PROVIDE A TIMELINE ON THOSE LIKE HOW LONG THEY HAVE A LEASE OR OPERATING AGREEMENT FOR THOSE THEY AND INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE VALET PEREZ RESOLUTION THAT WAS INCLUDED IN.

THAT ESSENTIALLY INCLUDES EVERYTHING THAT WAS SUBMITTED IN. THEY TYPICALLY PROVIDE WHERE, WHO THEIR, THEY'VE OBTAINED APPROVAL FROM FOR THEIR PARKING AREAS.

SO THEY SHOULD HAVE THAT. AND, AND WITH, WHEN THEY PROVIDE THOSE PARKING LOTS THAT THEY HAVE APPROVAL FOR, REMEMBER WITH VALET PARKING, IT'S NOT THE SAME AS HOW THEY WOULD, YOU WOULD NORMALLY PARK A TYPICAL PARKING LOT BECAUSE THEY'RE VALID WITH A.

VALETS ARE ABLE TO FIT QUITE A FEW MORE PARKING SPACES.

AND WITH THAT, THEY DO PROVIDE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES THAT THEY THAT IS PART OF THE OPERATIONS THAT THEY SUBMIT INTO US.

AND THEN THEY ALSO PROVIDE BASICALLY THERE, THERE IS A DOCUMENT IN HERE THAT ACTUALLY SHOWS THE VOLUMES AND WHAT, HOW, HOW MANY CARS THEY'VE PARKED PER MONTH. THAT SHOWS IS GETTING TO MR. YOUNG'S POINT. IF WE GIVE THEM A THREE YEAR LICENSE AGREEMENT, BUT THOSE ARE ON A MONTH TO MONTH AND COULD DISAPPEAR NEXT MONTH, AND IT'D BE NICE TO ACTUALLY HAVE MORE NOTICE ON HOW LONG THEY HAVE THOSE RESERVED FOR.

YEAH. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS IF THERE'S A LEASE AGREEMENT FOR THE LEASE OF THE LOT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO OBTAIN HOW LONG THAT WOULD BE IN PLACE AND HOW EASY IT IS TO DISSOLVE IT, OR IF IT HAS A 60 DAY OUT CLAUSE OR WHATEVER.

SO YOU'D HAVE TO JUST GATHER INFORMATION ON THE SUBJECT MATTER THAT THOSE SPACES ARE POTENTIALLY DISAPPEARING.

I THINK WE CAN. I THINK WE CAN ASK AS TO IF ANY OF THAT INFORMATION JUST TO GIVE US PEACE OF MIND.

BUT IN THE SAME TOKEN, IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY HAVE LIKE OUR CONTRACTS THAT SAY CAN BE WITH 90 DAYS NOTICE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THOSE WE WOULD STILL KNOW OUR VULNERABILITIES.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR. EXACTLY, BECAUSE THAT MIGHT MODIFY THE LICENSE AGREEMENT.

YES, SIR. BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW. YES. AND THAT AND THAT IS TO THE POINT THAT WE DO HAVE AS CITY MANAGER YOUNG JUST NOTED, WE DO HAVE THE RIGHTS AND AS A CITY MANAGER, HE HAS THE RIGHTS TO TERMINATE THE AGREEMENT.

THERE'S THERE'S ALSO LANGUAGE IN HERE THAT THEY SHALL PROVIDE IN WRITING 60 DAYS PRIOR TO OR THE LET ME SEE, SHOULD THE CITY DETERMINE ITS RIGHT TO TERMINATE THE FRANCHISE, WE HAVE 60 DAYS PRIOR TO TERMINATION.

AND WE THERE'S ALSO QUITE A BIT OF LANGUAGE IN HERE THAT PROTECTS AND ALLOWS US TO WORK WITH THEM AND BASICALLY REQUIRE OR TERMINATE ANY, ANY TIME ESSENTIALLY.

BUT WE DO GIVE THEM ADVANCE NOTICE PER THE, THE AGREEMENTS IN PLACE THAT HELPS.

IT DOES, YOU MIGHT RETHINK THE 60 DAY NOTICE AND THE CONDITIONS, YOU KNOW, JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HATE TO LOSE SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE OF SEASON AND EVERYBODY'S SCRAMBLING.

SO THANK YOU. HOWEVER, A PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO SELL THEIR LOT RIGHT? THEY DO. BUT MAYBE THE THE VALET HAS AT LEAST SOME KIND OF LEAD TIME LEAD.

NOTICE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO SELL THE LOT AND TAKE AWAY, I.

YOU KNOW, I NEED THREE MONTHS NOTICE OR I NEED SIX MONTHS NOTICE OR, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER THEY'RE REACHING THAT AGREEMENT SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS MORE ADVANCED NOTICE. NOT ONLY THAT, IF YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY OWNS A, OWNS A BUILDING AND THEY LEASE OUT THE SPACE AND THEY HAVE A TENANT HAS A FIVE YEAR LEASE, THEY CAN SELL THAT BUILDING ALL DAY LONG, BUT THE NEW BUYER IS GOING TO HAVE TO HONOR THE FIVE YEAR LEASE THAT THE THAT THE SELLER HAD WITH THE TENANT.

[04:15:04]

AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW. THEY MAY BE MONTH TO MONTH LEASES THOUGH, WHICH THAT MEANS WHAT I JUST SAID DOESN'T APPLY. BUT THE POINT IS IF THEY HAVE ANY TYPE OF LONG TERM LEASE WITH WITH THE THE VALET COMPANY.

THEY, YES, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SELL THAT PROPERTY, BUT IF THEY DO SELL THE PROPERTY, THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO DISCLOSE THE FACT THEY HAVE A LONG TERM LEASE AND A QUOTE UNQUOTE, TENANT THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT LEASE HONORED.

WELL, A LOT OF LEASES HAVE TERMINATION ON SALE CLAUSES.

SO IT'S VERY COMMON. AND THEY DO TYPICALLY LET US KNOW IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES IN THE LEASES AND THE LOCATIONS.

BUT TYPICALLY LIKE IT IS, IT'S ULTIMATELY ON THEM.

AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, I HAVE THERE'S THE SEVEN LOCATIONS THAT THEY HAVE FOR THEIR VALET PICK UP AND DROP OFFS.

AND WITH EACH OF THOSE LOCATIONS IN, IN SEVERAL CASES, THEY HAVE MORE THAN ONE LOT TO SUPPORT THAT VALET STATION.

AND AGAIN THEY DO, THEY ARE TYPICALLY TRYING TO FIND AND SEE IF THEY CAN SECURE ADDITIONAL PARKING LOTS AS ANNUALLY IS REALLY HAS SEEMED TO BE THE TREND.

SO HOW DOES THAT RELATE TO REQUIRED PARKING FOR A BUSINESS THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PARK ON THEIR PROPERTY? SO NONE OF THE PARKING.

OH, I THOUGHT YOU WERE. SORRY. I DON'T WANT TO CUT YOU OFF.

NONE OF THAT. NONE OF THE BUSINESSES ARE ALLOWED TO USE VALET AS THEIR REQUIRED PARKING.

SO THAT'S THIS IS ALL JUST BONUS, IF YOU WILL.

THIS IS JUST OPERATED AS A BONUS TO, TO ADD PARKING AND THE LOTS THAT THEY'RE USING ARE TRULY VACANT LOTS.

THEY'RE NOT SATISFYING THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR THEIR, THEY SHOULDN'T BE, THEY SHOULDN'T BE SATISFYING THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR OTHER BUILDINGS. THAT'S NOT TRUE. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THE QUESTION.

OH, I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THEM. I HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED, BUT THEY I MEAN, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PARKING LOT THAT IS FOR THE BUSINESSES, BUT IT'S BECOME VALET, SO YOU CAN'T PARK THERE.

THAT SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE. BUT IT'S IT'S A GOOD DISTINCTION, IF I MAY, MAYOR.

YES. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, WHEN THEY CAME FORWARD, THEY'RE USING OFF HOURS.

SO THEY USE THE BANK BUILDING, WHICH CLEARLY IS PARKING FOR THE BANK UNTIL 5:00 WHEN IT CLOSES.

AND THEN THEY'RE USING THAT ENTIRE LOT FOR VALET, NOT AT THE SAME TIME THE BANK IS OPENED.

OKAY, SO THEY ARE USING PARKING SPACES THAT ARE SATISFYING A DIFFERENT USE, BUT THEY ARE USING IT OFF HOURS TO WHERE THEY ARE NOT COMBINING THE TWO. THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

AND THAT MAKES SENSE. YES. YEAH. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED.

OKAY. JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY, WELL, I'M I HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME.

I WAS GOING TO A RESTAURANT. IT WAS THE VALET WAS BEHIND THE RESTAURANT AND HE SAID I COULDN'T PARK THERE.

I HAD TO VALET. AND I SAID, WELL, I DON'T BECAUSE I'M GOING TO THE BUSINESS THAT'S HERE.

AND HE SAID, WELL, YOUR CAR WILL GET TOWED. I SAID, OKAY, OKAY, YEAH, I'LL LOOK.

I'LL LOOK AT THE LOTS. BUT THE BROADER PICTURE IS WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR BUT THE VALET IS GETTING LARGER. I MEAN, WE STARTED WITH THREE AND NOW WE HAVE NINE.

SEVEN. WELL, THERE WAS THREE FOR THE VALET PROS, WHICH IS THE MAIN ONE.

AND THEY NOW HAVE SEVEN. WE AND THAT'S, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE SUGDEN LOCATION.

SO A TOTAL OF EIGHT VALET SALES HAVE THEIR OWN.

AND THEN VALET PRO HAS EIGHT. YEAH. VALET PROS HAS SEVEN AND YES.

AND THEN SUGDEN HAS ONE AND THEN THE OTHER ONE.

IT'S WELL IT'S JUST SUGDEN HAS HAS THEIR ONE VALLEY.

THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. JUST THEIR VALLEY STATION.

AND THEN VALLEY PROS HAS SEVEN VALLEY STATIONS SET UP ALONG OFF OF FIFTH AVENUE.

THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT HERE. AND WHAT HAPPENED TO SALES I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW IF SALES IS PART OF IT'S NOT PART OF THIS UNLESS THEY'RE OPERATING ENTIRELY PERMISSION TO DO VALET AND USE, BUT IT'S NOT TIED TO THIS DISTRICT WIDE.

[04:20:04]

IT'S BUT IT'S NOT PART OF THE VALET PROS DISTRICT WIDE PERMIT.

IT'S SEPARATE. RIGHT. YES, IT'S A DIFFERENT BALLET COMPANY.

YES. SO TO BE CLEAR, WHEN I ASKED THIS DIAGRAM THAT WE HAVE HERE, EVERY APPROVED BALLET IS EVERY ONE OR NO. THESE. SALES HAVE ITS OWN BALLET.

AND I CAN LOOK. IT'S ON EXHIBIT B, IT'S ON EXHIBIT.

SO IT'S PART OF THIS. IS IT NUMBER FIVE? NUMBER? LET ME SEE. I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. IS IT NUMBER FIVE? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. WHICH IS. YES. I WAS LIKE I THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS ONE THAT'S PART OF THIS. YES, IT'S PART OF IT SHOULD BE PART OF THIS. IT'S NOT IT'S OWN PERMIT.

IT'S PART OF WHAT NUMBER? FIVE. FIVE. SIX. FIVE.

I'M TRYING TO THINK THROUGH. OKAY. YES. SORRY.

YES. FIVE. FIVE. I'M SORRY. I'M LOOKING AT THE.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT MUST HAVE CHANGED.

IT MUST BE A DIFFERENT AGREEMENT BECAUSE THAT WAS WITH A DIFFERENT.

WE DID OFF SITE PARKING MIGHT BE THAT MIGHT BE WHAT YOU'RE THINKING OF BECAUSE IT'S WITHIN 600FT.

SO A CONDITION, WAS IT A CONDITIONAL USE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO USE TWO OFF SITE PARKING SPACES TO SATISFY THEIR PARKING FOR FOR SALES VALET.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS SPECIFICALLY A VALET APPROVAL, BUT I WILL LOOK OKAY, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS ALL RIGHT.

I'M JUST I'M WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT, AND WE JUST NEED TO KNOW ALL OF THEM.

I KNOW ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL, SO FROM THE STANDPOINT OF GOING PROSPECTIVELY, BEFORE WE COME BACK TO YOU IN MAY, I, WE WILL RESEARCH THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION AND EMAIL EVERYONE SO EVERYONE'S AWARE WHETHER THERE'S A SEPARATE AGREEMENT OR IF THERE'S, IT'S CONSIDERED PART OF FIVE AND OR THERE WAS GRANTED PARKING SPACES AS A CONDITIONAL USE ADJACENT, AS ERICA JUST INDICATED. BUT WE'LL CLARIFY THAT AND GIVE IT TO YOU IN WRITING SO THAT YOU HAVE AFTER THIS MEETING, BY THE TIME YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME WE GET BACK TOGETHER, WE WILL HAVE ANSWERED THAT IN SHORT ORDER SO THAT YOU HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION AS WELL.

AND IS THERE CAN TRANSIENT LODGING OR CAN A BUSINESS USE VALET.

REMEMBER HOW IT USED TO BE WHERE YOU COULD USE VALET.

YEAH. THE WAY THE CODE WE CHANGED THE CODE. YOU CANNOT USE VALET FOR REQUIRED PARKING.

AND THAT'S IN FIFTH AND DOWNTOWN. YES. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VALET PARK YOUR REQUIRED PARKING.

WELL, YOU DID SOMETHING. OKAY. ANY OTHER. MR. YOUNG, YOU NEED ANY INFORMATION? COUNCIL. I'M SORRY.

I DON'T THINK AT THIS POINT, MA'AM. I THINK WE'RE GOOD.

OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THE LAST TOPIC ON THIS AGENDA MEMORANDUM IS ALLEYWAYS.

YOU'LL SEE THE THIRD NAME ON YOUR AGENDA MEMORANDUM IS COREY ADAMSKI, YOUR DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF.

AND THIS WAS THIS WAS ONE THAT STAFF ADDED. AND THIS IS WE JUST THOUGHT WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DISTRICT AND ALL THE DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT HAVE COME UP ON THIS DISTRICT, WE WOULD LIKE TO THROW SOMETHING IN FOR OURSELVES.

AND THAT'S JUST THE USE OF THE ALLEYWAYS. THERE ARE I INCLUDED A NUMBER OF PICTURES.

THIS WAS JUST A TEN MINUTE DRIVE THROUGH THE ALLEYS.

YOU CAN SEE WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF CONGESTION IN THE ALLEYS.

WHAT COREY HAD ADDED TO THIS FIFTH AVE SOUTH IS A CONGESTED ROADWAY.

WE KNOW THIS IS CONSTRAINED ROADWAY. SORRY, USE A TECHNICAL TERM.

SO WE DON'T, WE KNOW DURING CERTAIN TIMES THERE'S NO WAY WE'RE GOING TO BE USING THE ACTUAL AVENUE TO GET PLACES.

SO OUR FIRST RESPONDERS, OUR POLICE, FIRE, EMS, YOU RELY ON THE ALLEYS TO GET AROUND.

ALSO, A LOT OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S EQUIPMENT IS HYDRANTS.

WHAT IS IT? FTC, THE FTC SHUT OFFS ARE IN THE ALLEY THEMSELVES, SO THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN ACCESS FOR THESE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS THROUGH THOSE ALLEYWAYS. SO YOU'LL SEE IN THESE PICTURES WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THINGS POP UP IN THE ALLEYWAYS.

THEY'RE ALREADY NARROWER THAN A ROADWAY. BUT WE'LL SEE, WE SEE STORAGE SHEDS.

WE SEE THIS A LOT. RESTAURANTS PARTICULARLY, THEY WANT TO USE UP EVERY AVAILABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THEIR BUILDING FOR TABLES AND CHAIRS. SO THEY NEED ADDITIONAL STORAGE. WE SEE STORAGE OF PROPANE TANKS.

WE SEE STORAGE OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS. THIS IS JUST A STORAGE SHED THAT POPPED UP.

WE SEE THESE BIG COOLERS THAT POP UP. YOU HAVE DUMPSTERS.

[04:25:06]

SO IF YOU ADD A STORAGE SHED, NOT ONLY DOES THAT INCREASE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF YOUR, YOUR USE YOUR BUSINESS, YOU HAVE TO PARK THAT, THAT MIGHT PUSH YOU OVER REQUIRED PARKING.

SO AND IT'S NOT PERMITTED IN OUR RIGHTS OF WAY AT ALL.

AND ALSO YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET APPROVAL. SO WE HAVE ISSUES OF DELIVERIES NOT IN DELIVERY AREAS.

WE HAVE ISSUES OF PEOPLE ENCROACHING INTO THE ALLEYWAYS.

I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT TO RUN A BUSINESS, BUT WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THOSE ALLEYWAYS.

THEY HAVE TO BE PASSABLE. THEY HAVE TO BE USABLE BY ESPECIALLY FIRST RESPONDERS, BUT ALSO JUST EVERYONE.

THERE'S PARKING A LOT OF THE A LOT OF THE PARKING THAT IS SURFACE PARKING FOR THESE BUILDINGS IS OFF OF THE ALLEYWAYS.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE CAN ACCESS THAT PARKING.

I KNOW THIS IS AN ENFORCEMENT THING. BUT AS I SAID, I COULD PROBABLY THIS WAS ONE DAY THAT WE DROVE DOWN THE ALLEY.

I COULD PROBABLY GO DOWN TODAY AND IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

SO MADAM, MADAM MAYOR, THE REASON I ASKED FOR THIS TO BE HERE, IT'S NO DIFFERENT AS THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD FROM A UTILITY PERSPECTIVE AND THE FACT THAT I CAN DRIVE DOWN THE ROAD AND THESE NOT ALL THESE STRUCTURES JUST GOT HERE IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, SOME OF THESE HAVE BEEN BUILT AND HAVE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS. AND THERE'S A CONSTANT CREEP.

AND THE POINT IS, IF WE NEED TO ENFORCE OUR CODE, AND I WANTED IT TO BE PART OF THIS DISCUSSION, NO DIFFERENT THAN WE TALKED ABOUT EASEMENTS AND RIGHT OF WAYS AND THOSE THINGS AS IT PERTAINED TO UTILITIES.

IT'S GOING TO COME WITH ITS PAIN AND YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR IT.

SO WANTED IT TO BE PART OF THIS DISCUSSION. SO YOU KNEW WHEN WE START TO NOTIFY THEM AND, AND ENFORCING OUR CODE, WHY IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT WE DO IT. IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CHANGE, IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ALL ALONG.

AND WE NEED TO WE NEED TO RECLAIM THESE THINGS WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO SO THAT OUR, OUR FIRST RESPONDERS AND JUST IN GENERAL, OUR RIGHT OF WAYS ARE CLEAR FOR THE PURPOSES OF WHICH THEY'RE CONSTRUCTED.

AND AND THAT WAS REALLY THE POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION.

I MEAN, I'LL LET COREY SAY ANYTHING ELSE HE WANTS, BUT I WANTED YOU TO KNOW I DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE FOREIGN IS WHAT'S WHAT CHANGED.

WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF THESE THINGS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THIS WAY.

AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO. AND IT SEGWAYS A LITTLE BIT INTO THE NEXT CONVERSATION TOO, BECAUSE AS YOU AS YOU INTRODUCE, WE'LL CALL MORE INTENSE USES, YOU INTRODUCE A RESTAURANT INTO A BUILDING THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR RETAIL.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A MORE INTENSE USE. THERE'S MORE STORAGE, THERE'S MORE, YOU KNOW, A COOLER WHERE THERE WASN'T A COOLER.

SO WE'RE SEEING THIS CREEP. SO WE JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT MAKE EVERYONE AWARE.

YEAH. KRAMER. AND THEN I WANT TO I DON'T I THINK THIS IS FOR YOU, ERIC, BUT MAYBE FOR MR. YOUNG. WHEN I SEE GARBAGE BINS, THAT'S THE RIGHT WORD.

DUMPSTERS. WHO? MY BRAIN IS A DUMPSTER FIRE RIGHT NOW.

WHEN I SEE THE BIG DUMPSTER, DOESN'T EVERY BUILDING HAVE A SPECIFIC SPOT FOR THE DUMPSTER THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO? AND IT'S NEVER IN THE RIGHT OF WAY? THERE ARE APPROVED LOCATIONS FOR DUMPSTERS.

YES. WE HAVE A COUPLE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. ONE, WE HAVE NEWER DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING APPROVAL FOR ROLLOUTS, MEANING WE WILL ROLL OUR BINS OUT ON TRASH DAY AND THEN WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ROLL THEM BACK.

WHERE ARE THEY? AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THERE'S A COUPLE INSTANCES WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO USE SHARED COMPACTORS, WHICH IS GREAT IN THEORY, BUT THAT'S ADDED WORK FOR, YOU KNOW, A RESTAURANT EMPLOYEES.

HOW MANY TIMES A DAY ARE YOU HAVING TO GO BACK AND FORTH? SO THAT SOMETIMES DOESN'T ACTUALLY END UP IN PRACTICE.

OKAY, LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION. IS THERE EVER A CASE WHERE WE WOULD HAVE TOLD A BUSINESS THEY'VE GOTTEN PERMITS AND BEEN ALLOWED TO OPERATE WHERE THEY IT WAS EXPECTED THAT THEY WOULD KEEP THEIR DUMPSTER IN A RIGHT OF WAY.

I CAN'T IMAGINE, AND IT WOULD REQUIRE A RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT.

ANYTHING THAT IS PLACED IN OUR RIGHT OF WAY REQUIRES A RIGHT OF WAY.

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. AND SO THIS JUST ALL NEEDS TO.

I UNDERSTAND. SO YOU'RE DOING THIS FOR ALL THE PHONE CALLS WE'RE GOING TO GET? YES, I, I. I AGREE. BUT THE OTHER THE OTHER THING, AND I WILL TELL YOU TOO, IS THIS IS A IT'S A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, BUT THERE IS A MIXED USE COMPONENT.

YOU DO HAVE RESIDENCES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO YOU, WE IN THE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, EVERY NOW AND THEN YOU GET REQUESTS FROM RESIDENTS. WE NEED TO BEAUTIFICATION OF THE ALLEYWAYS.

[04:30:04]

YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT DUMPSTERS. YOU'RE GOING TO BE LISTENING TO DELIVERY TRUCKS BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THIS HAPPENS. AND SO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO, WE WANT TO PAVER THE ALLEY AND WE WANT TO INCLUDE ALL THIS LANDSCAPING.

RESPECTFULLY, PLEASE DON'T APPROVE THAT BECAUSE WE NEED THIS TO FUNCTION AS A BACK OF HOUSE AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE REPAIRING PAVERS.

AND WE THE LANDSCAPING JUST MAKES THE VISIBILITY LESS.

SO, YOU KNOW, JUST THAT UNDERSTANDING THAT I'M WITH THAT 100%.

I JUST THINK IT'S, WE DON'T NEED DUMPSTERS IN RIGHT OF WAYS LIKE WE SHOULD NOT.

THAT'S EASY. THANKS. AND SO FOR US, WHO I GET CALLS AND I COULDN'T CALL YOU EVERY DAY FOR IS THIS APPROVED OR NOT APPROVED? AND I, I APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE THAT I DO NOT GET BACK TO YOU ON THOSE THINGS, BUT ARE. WHEN YOU DO ALLOW SOMEONE TO ADD UP LIKE I GOT CALLS ABOUT THAT BIG ICE THING AND RIGHT THERE BY SUGDEN. WAS THAT APPROVED? IF SOMEONE IS DOING A RENOVATION AND THEY TEMPORARILY NEED, THERE'S TEMPORARY SITUATIONS, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE SOMEONE WOULD COME IN AND WE WOULD PERMANENTLY APPROVE.

I, I DON'T WANT TO SAY NEVER BECAUSE THINGS MAY HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE MY TIME THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF, BUT IT'S NOT MOVING FORWARD. NO. BUT DO WE HAVE A LISTING OF WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED OR ADMINISTRATIVELY SO THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR HISTORIC KNOWLEDGE? SO I WOULD HAVE TO I CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE WHAT'S BEEN.

THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS, BUT NOT IN THE NOT IN MY RECOLLECTION.

THERE IS. BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT LATER. BUT I YOU KNOW, JUST SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED SO THAT IT'S A RECORD.

YEAH. THE OTHER PART MAYOR AND I'LL JUST EMPHASIZE THIS.

IF ANYONE HAS AN EXACT ADDRESS, WE'LL LOOK AT IT AT THE MOMENT WE GET NOTICE OF IT.

AND SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ASK INDIVIDUALLY WHEN THERE'S A SPECIFIC QUESTION, BECAUSE YOU'D RATHER HAVE IT RESEARCHED IN THE ANSWER BACK THAN TO, TO, TO NOT GIVE YOU THE ANSWER AS TO WHAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT WAS APPROVED TO.

I ASKED THAT OF ANY MEMBER OF COUNCIL OR PUBLIC THAT WANTS TO KNOW.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE THERE FOR. SO AND SINCE WE'RE STILL ON VALET AND ALLEYWAYS THE LAKE RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE GIVE THE TWO PARKING SPACES THEY HAVE TO DROP OFF ON THE STREET.

NORTH LAKE. EAST LAKE, NORTH LAKE. RIGHT THERE BY WE LOST OUR MAP.

AND THEY'RE BACKING UP ONTO FIFTH AVENUE BOTH WAYS TO GET TO THE VALET.

SO IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT MAYBE DURING SEASON NEEDS TO BE WATCHED, IF WE NEED TO MOVE THAT SO THAT THEY'RE NOT.

I MEAN, IT'S BACKING UP. WELL, THAT'S WHAT SOMETIMES WE NEED THE EYES AND EARS FROM THE PUBLIC THAT'S OUT THERE THAT WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING WE WANT TO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD INFORMATION TO RECEIVE.

AND I CAN REACH OUT DIRECTLY TO THE VALET OPERATOR TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR, THEIR FLOW IS, IS MOVING MORE QUICKLY. AND IF NOT, WE'LL HAVE TO REEVALUATE THAT LOCATION FOR A VALET AND DO, DOES OUR DO OUR COMMUNITY OFFICERS HELP IN THAT IN IDENTIFYING AREAS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE TO MOVE AROUND OR KEEP TRACK OF IT.

I KNOW THEY'RE BUSY, BUT SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE IT IS SAFE AND ACCOMMODATING.

AND I TYPICALLY REACH OUT INTERNALLY TO SOME OF THE OTHER STAFF.

I REACH OUT TO FIRE TO SEE IF THEY'VE NOTICED ANYTHING, IF THERE'S ANY COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE, HAVE GONE TO TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY, THEY RELAYED TO, TO ME IF THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS. AND TYPICALLY, ESPECIALLY IN ADVANCE OF OUR ANNUAL RENEWAL PERIOD, I MAKE SURE THAT I RECEIVE ANY FEEDBACK.

SO I, I ALWAYS LOOK TO HEAR IF THERE'S ANY CONCERNS OR ISSUES WITH ANY OF THE LOCATIONS FOR THESE PICKUPS AND DROP OFF DROP OFF LOCATIONS FOR THE VALET.

OKAY. IT'D BE GOOD THAT WE KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? BLANKENSHIP, DO YOU NEED ANY RULES OR ORDINANCE CHANGES IN THIS AREA OR IS JUST A MATTER OF ENFORCING WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE? IT'S JUST A MATTER OF ENFORCING.

AND JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHILE WE WERE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RULES AND REGULATIONS, JUST TO KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, IS ANYBODY UP HERE OPPOSED TO ENFORCING THE ORDINANCE? NO. SO I THINK WE'RE GOOD. IT'S HARD. YEAH. IT'S HARD.

[04:35:06]

WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO STORE. WELL AND THAT'S EXTRA CHAIRS.

THE NEXT TOPIC. YES. KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.

OKAY. BECAUSE IT WILL. HERE WE GO. HERE WE GO.

YEAH. WE BUILT THIS IN SUCCESSION. SO I TRIED FIGURING OUT HOW THIS WAS GOING TO FUNCTION.

SO. GOT IT. ANYTHING ELSE? THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

KILLED IT. PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THAT'S ALL I HAD FOR THAT ONE.

I HAVE DIRECTION ON THE ITEMS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO ME TO BRING BACK.

AND THEN WE'LL SCHEDULE THE NEXT WORKSHOPS FOR THOSE ITEMS. YEAH. CAN I MEG, IF YOU'D LIKE TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

HI. FOR THE RECORD, MEG STEPANYAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH BID.

I JUST WANTED TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF ITEMS WITH REGARD TO VALET, TO REMIND YOU OF A COUPLE OF THINGS AND LET THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE NEW UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU MR. MANAGER, FOR ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WHAT VALET PROS DOES PROVIDE IS A PUBLIC SERVICE. CERTAINLY THE OTHER VALET COMPANY AS WELL.

BUT, BUT VALET PROS ITSELF IS A SMALL BUSINESS.

THEY'VE TAKEN ON A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF LIABILITY, BOTH FROM THE PARKING LOT SPACES AND AS YOU KNOW, AND ALSO WITH ALL OF THESE FANCY CARS THAT THEY PARK.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE CLEANING UP, BUT THIS, THIS SMALL BUSINESS HAS VERY REAL COSTS IN PARTICIPATING IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND I WILL SAY THAT THEY ARE A MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY.

THEY HELP FIND LOST PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, I MIGHT GET A CALL ON A SATURDAY EXPLAINING SATURDAY NIGHT, EXPLAINING SOMETHING'S HAPPENING. SO THEY REALLY DO OPERATE AS A MEMBER OF OUR FIFTH FAMILY.

AND THEN JUST AS WELL, WHEN THERE'S BACK UP, WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND NOTED IS THAT THAT COMES FROM A RIDE SHARE PERSPECTIVE.

AND ALSO VALET PROS DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB OF THE RIDE SHARE AS THEY'RE PARKING CARS, ALLOWING THAT RIDE SHARE TO COME IN.

AND THAT HAPPENS IN THAT THREE SPACE AREA. AND WE WILL BE ADDRESSING THAT TYPE OF ZONE, IF YOU WILL, RIDESHARE DROP OFF WITH THE STREETSCAPE HARDSCAPE PLAN.

SO YES, IT NEEDS TO TO HAVE A PLACE, ESPECIALLY AS WE HASH OUT THE MICRO TRANSIT AS WELL.

BUT RIGHT NOW THOSE VALET STANDS ARE DOING DOUBLE DUTY WITH RIDESHARE DROP OFF.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE, YOU KNOW, I COME OUT OF THE BUILDINGS, I SEE IT QUITE A BIT.

AND, AND I THINK THAT THEY HAVE TO LIVE UP TO A VERY STRINGENT SAFETY PLAN.

AND ARADO HAS TRAINED HIS PEOPLE AND THEY DO NAVIGATE THAT.

SO WE'RE REALLY CONFIDENT IN THEIR BEHAVIOR, YOU KNOW, BEHAVIOR PERFORMANCE WITH OUR COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK THAT'S IT. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OTHER.

SO IF I MIGHT, WHEN YOU SAY RIDESHARE, YOU MEAN UBERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

OKAY. SO WHEN WE HAD TAXIS, WE HAD DESTINATION DROP OFFS, RIGHT.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT. THEY DO ON THIRD.

THERE'S WHEREVER YOU'RE GOING. THEY HAVE THIS ONE SPACE IN FRONT OF TOMMY BAHAMAS.

AND THAT'S THE WHOLE THING THAT WE HAD ISSUES WITH WITH THE MICRO TRANSIT.

WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO DROP OFF? WHERE ARE YOU PICKING UP? YOU CAN'T STOP ON FIFTH AVENUE. SO, SO THE AREAS RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE SEEMED TO HAVE MORPHED.

AND AGAIN, THE STREETSCAPE HARDSCAPE HAS DEDICATED PLANS TO ADDRESS THAT.

BUT RIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE DROPPING OFF ON EIGHTH RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CAFE.

RADU HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM TO PULL IN AND HELP SHARE WITHIN THAT LOADING ZONE.

PULL IN AND DROP OFF WITHIN FIFTH PARKWAY. THE OTHER AREA IS THE WEST.

AND THEN SOME ARE DOING IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BANK AT THE TOP OF THE AVENUE.

SO THIS CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

BUT RIGHT NOW, RADU IS DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB OF NAVIGATING THAT WITHIN HIS BUSINESS OF, OF ASSISTING US WITH THAT.

SO IT IS A PUBLIC SERVICE HE PROVIDES IN THAT REGARD.

YEAH. I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE CAREFUL WITH FIRE LANES.

CITY MANAGER. BECAUSE I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT BUT AGAIN, NOT WITHIN THE FIRE LANE, BUT WITHIN THE LOADING ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OR I'M JUST USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE. THERE'S NO PARKING HAPPENING IN THE FIRE LANES UNLESS IT'S DURING THE DAY, IN WHICH CASE WE DO OUR BEST TO GET THEM OUT OF THERE.

[04:40:03]

BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE, WE CAN HAVE THAT AS PART OF WHEN WE GET TOGETHER ON PARKING, JUST HAVE THAT AS A SIDEBAR TO IT.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. OKAY. THANK YOU. WERE YOU COMPLETE? THANK YOU. OH, I HAVE ONE QUESTION. I'M SORRY. WITH SPECIAL EVENTS AND ALL OF THE CONDOS, WE HAVE A POLICY THAT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PUT OUT STAKES AND STICKS. AND IS IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT? SO WHEN THERE IS A SPECIAL EVENT AND IT MAY NOT EVEN BE IN THIS TOPIC, I'M SORRY.

WELL, NO, IT'S IT'S THE RIGHT OF WAY IT GOES.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPECIAL EVENTS. YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM OUT. YOU HAVE SOME THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 20 YEARS.

YOU HAVE WALLS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE 20 YEARS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. AND SO THERE ARE SOME NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY'VE GONE TO PUTTING THE ONES WITH THE GREEN TOP ON THEM.

SOME HAVE THROWN ROCKS IN THERE. AND, AND SO THAT IS PART OF WHY WE WERE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION.

WE HAVE, I THINK HIS NAME IS IAN JACKSON, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

IS THAT RIGHT. WHO DOES THE RIGHT OF WAY ENFORCEMENT.

BUT IT, IT, IT'S THE SQUEAKY WHEEL SCENARIOS BECAUSE WE DON'T ENFORCE IT UNIFORMLY ACROSS JURISDICTIONS AND UNDERSTAND MEANING ACROSS THE CITY.

BUT WE HAVE THEM. AND YES, WE'RE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO REQUIRE ALL OF THEM TO TAKE THEM OUT.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL GET THOSE PHONE CALLS AS WELL.

WE GET THEM BOTH WAYS. WE GET THEM WHEN THEY GET PUT OUT AND WE GET THEM WHEN, BECAUSE SOME HAVE ALREADY BEEN THERE FOR, FOR TEN YEARS. AND HOW HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I'VE TAKEN THEM OUT.

SO YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN, BUT I THINK YOU GET THEM MORE PREVALENT WHEN THERE'S SPECIAL EVENTS, BUT THEY EXIST THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY EVERY DAY. AND HOW WILL WE ADDRESS THAT? WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT SOLELY ABOUT ENFORCEMENT.

AND WE'RE YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR IT WHEN WE HAVE SOME OF THEM THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR TEN YEARS.

AND WE ALL KNOW WHO THEY ARE. I DON'T I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING WE DON'T ALREADY ALL KNOW ABOUT WHAT I MEAN, THAT WE KNOW WE CAN DRIVE THROUGH COMMUNITY AND SEE THEM THERE.

OKAY. AND BUT AS FAR AS IAN JACKSON'S AND HIS LETTERS AND THE RIGHT OF WAY ENFORCEMENT PART.

I'LL LET ALLISON SPEAK TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

YES, HE TYPICALLY SENDS OUT, NOTIFIES THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHEN HE SEES THAT THERE'S STAKES THAT ARE PUT UP AND IN PARTICULARLY THE ONES WHEN THEY PUT OUT THE METAL STAKES, BECAUSE OUR CODE DOES NOT, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THOSE ARE NOT PERMITTED.

SO WE DO TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE. AND WE DO HAVE A LOT OF PUSHBACK.

OF COURSE, WHEN HE DOES SEND OUT THE LETTERS AND AND APPROACHES THE THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

BUT WE ARE CONTINUING TO GO AHEAD AND TRYING TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES THROUGHOUT THE CITY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. SURE. OKAY. WE ARE COMPLETE WITH FIVE C.

[5.D) Discussion related to Rooftop Dining Regulations in the 5th Avenue South Special Overlay District Established by Ordinance 2021-14663.]

GOOD AFTERNOON HELLO. IT'S BEEN A WHILE. THIS IS REALLY A CONTINUATION OF THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD IN FIVE C.

THIS. BUT WAS THIS ITEM WAS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED BY COUNCIL TO COME BACK AT THIS MEETING.

SO THIS IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ROOFTOP DINING REGULATIONS IN THE FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH SPECIAL OVERLAY DISTRICT.

SO THIS WAS ESTABLISHED BY ORDINANCE IN 2021.

IT'S 2021-14663. AT THE TIME COUNCIL WAS WELL I'LL WE'LL START WITH WHAT YOUR CODE READS.

SO AS I MENTIONED BEFORE IN OUR DISCUSSION OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICT ITSELF, THE DISTRICT IS VERY SPECIFIC ON WHAT USES ARE ALLOWED ON EACH STORY.

SO OF THE THREE STORIES THAT ARE ALLOWED IN THE DISTRICT RESTAURANTS ARE LIMITED TO THE FIRST STORY.

RESTAURANTS ARE NOT PERMITTED ON THE SECOND OR THIRD STORY OF OF BUILDINGS IN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT.

BUT AT THE TIME IN 2021 AND 2020. I'M SORRY. MR. SCHUCHART AND HIS ATTORNEY, JOHN PASSIDOMO, APPROACHED COUNCIL WITH A PROPOSAL OR REQUEST TO AMEND THE REGULATIONS TO ALLOW ROOFTOP, A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT THE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH COUNCIL AND JUST CRAFTING THAT LANGUAGE.

WE DID AMEND THE DISTRICT TO ALLOW ROOFTOP DINING, BUT IN, BUT IT'S SPECIFIC.

SO ESSENTIALLY IN THAT IN THE SECTION 58-1134C2 NOW READS FIRST STORIES WILL BE FOR COMMERCIAL ONLY USE ONLY TRANSIENT LODGING IS

[04:45:01]

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY, IN THIS SECTION, ROOFTOP RESTAURANTS ARE CONDITIONAL USES SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS PROVIDED IN SECTION 46-34 OF THE CODE AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS, ARE LOCATED ON THE SECOND OR THIRD STOREYS OF EXISTING BUILDINGS WITHIN THE.

ONLY THE 800 BLOCK OF FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH ARE LOCATED NO LESS THAN 500FT FROM RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PROPERTY LOCATED OUTSIDE THE FIFTH AVENUE SOUTH SPECIAL OVERLAY DISTRICT.

ALL ELEMENTS OF THE RESTAURANT AND DINING ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE 42 FOOT HEIGHT LIMITATION, AS DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION 581134 A OF THIS CODE, AND THEY WILL IMPLEMENT BEST PRACTICES FOR STORMWATER RUNOFF.

SO THROUGH A STUDY OF WHERE THIS COULD BE APPLIED APPROPRIATELY, THEY FOUND THAT THE 800 BLOCK, WHICH IS WHERE THE ONE EXISTING ROOFTOP RESTAURANT IS LOCATED, WAS AN APPROPRIATE KIND OF TEST SITE BECAUSE THIS WAS APPROVED AS A PILOT PROGRAM.

SO IT WAS APPROVED FOR A FIVE YEAR STINT, IF YOU WILL, AS A PILOT PROGRAM TO SAY IF WE LIMIT THE LOCATION BECAUSE AND THE REASON THAT LOCATION WAS PICKED WAS BECAUSE IT DID NOT HAVE ANY SOLELY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY WITHIN PROXIMITY.

SO AND HAD BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE BECAUSE YOU CAN IF YOU HAVE A BUILDING THAT IS ALREADY THREE STORIES TALL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT ON TOP OF THAT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD YOU WOULD THEN BE IN VIOLATION OF THE CHARTER.

SO THERE WAS AN APPROPRIATE BUILDING. THERE WERE NO RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. SO THAT WAS HOW THE CODE WAS PERMITTED.

BUT THE UNDERSTANDING WAS, AND IT'S IN THAT IN THE ORDINANCE THAT THIS WOULD SUNSET, THIS WOULD EXPIRE AFTER THE FIVE YEARS.

SO THAT HAS EXPIRED. IT EXPIRED ON JUNE 16TH OF THIS YEAR.

SO WE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH STAFF, HAD A CONVERSATION WITH COUNSEL RIGHT BEFORE, I THINK THE DAY BEFORE THAT EXPIRATION DATE, BECAUSE WHILE WE HAVE ONE RESTAURANT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS REGULATION, THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE, BUT WE DID HAVE ONE OTHER PROPERTY OWNER APPROACH OR AN AGENT ON THEIR BEHALF APPROACHED COUNSEL SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'D ALSO LIKE TO LOOK INTO THIS, BUT THIS IS EXPIRING.

SO IS THERE ANYTHING WE COULD DO? SO AT THE TIME COUNCIL SAID IT'S GOING TO EXPIRE.

THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO IN THAT SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. BUT YOU ASKED THAT WE COME BACK TO THIS MEETING AND DISCUSS WITH YOU YOUR OPTIONS.

SO REALLY, I'VE I'VE PROVIDED WHAT I THINK ARE THE FOUR OPTIONS THERE.

I'M SURE THERE'S OTHERS, BUT I THINK THERE ARE FOUR PRETTY EASY OPTIONS AHEAD OF YOU.

ONE IS TO TAKE NO ACTION AND ALLOW THE ORDINANCE TO EXPIRE.

WE WILL HAVE OUR ONE ROOFTOP RESTAURANT THAT WILL BECOME A LAWFUL NONCONFORMITY.

BUT, BUT THEY'LL CONTINUE, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE. YOU COULD NUMBER TWO, YOU COULD REINSTATE THE PROVISION AND SET A NEW SUNSET DATE.

SO REINSTATE EXACTLY AS IT IS, BUT JUST ALSO AS A PILOT PROGRAM, SO NOT INDEFINITE.

YOU COULD THREE REINSTATE THE PROVISION AS WRITTEN PERMANENTLY.

JUST CODIFY IT. SO NOT A PILOT PROGRAM. NO EXPIRATION DATE.

IT JUST BECOMES PART OF THE CODE. OR NUMBER FOUR YOU COULD REVISE.

WELL THAT'S TERRIBLE. I WROTE THAT HORRIBLY. BUT YOU COULD REVISE THE REGULATIONS AND REINSTATE THE PROVISION. SO IF YOU THINK THAT THIS IS WORTH CONTINUING, YOU COULD CONTINUE TO ALLOW IT AS A PILOT OR INDEFINITELY, BUT YOU COULD REVISE WHAT YOU THINK MAYBE DOESN'T WORK AS WELL ABOUT THIS REGULATION.

SO I DID IN THE AGENDA MEMORANDUM, I DID INCLUDE A COUPLE OF TOPICS THAT HAVE COME UP BECAUSE IN WE AND TO BE CLEAR, THIS ISN'T CRITICIZING, YOU KNOW, OUR ONE EXAMPLE, BUT WE ONLY HAVE ONE EXAMPLE.

SO WHEN WE CONSIDER IS THIS WORKING? IS IT NOT? WE ONLY HAVE ONE BUSINESS TO LOOK AT. AND SOME OF THEIR TWO ISSUES HAVE COME UP WITH THAT.

SO THE FIRST IS THE IDEA OF A PRIVATE CLUB. SO IN 2025, THE EXISTING PRIME SOCIAL RESERVE, PRIME SOCIAL AS IT WAS APPROVED, CAME FORWARD FOR A VISION TO THEIR OUTDOOR DINING PERMIT.

NOW THAT RESTAURANT WAS APPROVED THROUGH THE CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS, CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL TO ALLOW AN OUTDOOR OR TO ALLOW A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT, THEN OUTDOOR DINING APPROVAL BECAUSE IT'S AN OUTDOOR ITS OUTDOOR.

THE. THE. THE WAY THIS ROOFTOP DINING WAS PROPOSED TO CITY COUNCIL IS.

WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF WE COULD HAVE TABLES AND CHAIRS ON THE ROOFTOPS OF THESE RESTAURANTS? SO BY NATURE, THESE ARE OUTDOOR DINING. SO THEY DID BUILD A KITCHEN.

THERE'S THERE'S KITCHEN AREA. THERE IS AN ENCLOSED ELEMENT TO THIS, BUT THE DINING FOR THE RESTAURANT IS OUTDOOR DINING.

SO THEY CAME THROUGH AND HAD AN APPROVAL FOR OUTDOOR DINING. IN 2025 THEY AMENDED THEIR OUTDOOR DINING AND THAT CAME BEFORE CITY COUNCIL.

IT WAS A THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL WAS FOR PRIME SOCIAL.

[04:50:02]

SO WE HAD THE WHOLE DISCUSSION WITH CITY COUNCIL ABOUT PRIVATE CLUB.

THERE'S A DEFINITION IN YOUR CODE OF PRIVATE CLUB.

BUT AND I'LL READ THAT IT SAYS PRIVATE CLUB MEANS A PROPERTY OWNED OR LEASED AND OPERATED BY A GROUP OR AN ASSOCIATION OF PERSONS, AND MAINTAINED AND OPERATED SOLELY FOR THE MEMBERS OF SUCH A GROUP OR ASSOCIATION AND THEIR GUESTS, AND WHICH IS NOT AVAILABLE OR UNRESTRICTED PUBLIC ACCESS OR USE, AND WHICH IS NOT OPERATED FOR PROFIT.

TO ME, THAT READS MORE LIKE AN ELKS CLUB OR SOMETHING.

THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THAT IS, IS MORE INTENDED TO BE THROUGH THE CONVERSATION WITH THE PETITIONER AND THE PETITIONER'S AGENT AT THE TIME, IT WAS REVEALED, THIS IS NOT A PRIVATE CLUB. IT'S A MEMBERSHIP BASED BUSINESS.

SO IT'S, IT'S A MEMBERSHIP. YOU, YOU BUY PAY INTO A MEMBERSHIP.

AND IT'S A RESERVATION, YOU KNOW, PREFERRED RESERVATIONS FOR MEMBERS TO DINE THERE.

SO THAT CONCEPT IS NOT ADDRESSED IN OUR CODE.

THAT CONCEPT FOR MEMBERSHIP BASED DINING IS, IS NOT I MEAN, WE HAVE GYMS, FITNESS STUDIOS, GYMS IN THE CITY THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD ASSUME ARE MEMBERSHIP BASED, BUT THAT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN THE CODE.

THERE'S NOT THERE'S NO SEPARATION BETWEEN A MEMBERSHIP BASED AND NON MEMBERSHIP BASED.

SO THAT'S ONE THING TO CONSIDER. AND I THINK PART OF THAT CONVERSATION CAME UP WITH THE PARKING.

SO REMEMBER NO REQUIREMENT FOR PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

THIS PARTICULAR BUSINESS DID VOLUNTEER. THEY ELECTED TO PAY FOR THEIR OUTDOOR DINING.

THEY ELECTED TO ALLOCATE THE PARKING FROM THE GARAGE TO COVER THE OUTDOOR DINING.

SO THEY THEY WERE APPROVED FOR THE ALLOCATION OF SPACES OUT OF THE GARAGE TO COVER THE OUTDOOR DINING.

IT WASN'T REQUIRED, BUT THEY DID. THEY DID DO THAT.

SO THEN THE QUESTION WAS, CAN WE ALLOCATE SPACES OUT OF A PUBLIC GARAGE FOR A BUSINESS THAT IS MEMBERSHIP RESTRICTED? SO THAT'S ONE TOPIC TO CONSIDER. IF YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING EXTENDING THIS PROGRAM.

THE OTHER THAT I WOULD BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION.

AND THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC TO THIS RESTAURANT. THIS IS OUTDOOR DINING AS IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE IN OUR CITY.

OUTDOOR DINING IS BY NATURE OUTDOOR, BUT WE LIVE IN FLORIDA, SO IF IT'S NOT 105 DEGREES, IT'S RAINING OR THERE'S FIVE DAYS OF THE YEAR THAT IT'S FREEZING. SO AS WE SEE OUTDOOR DINING EVOLVE, THEY GET APPROVED FOR OUTDOOR DINING, THEN UMBRELLAS, HEATERS, FANS, AWNINGS. THEN IT'S A LOUVERED METAL AWNING THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO CLOSE ALL THE TIME.

WELL THEN IF IT'S RAINING, WE NEED TO HAVE THE ROLL DOWN SHUTTERS AND BY THE END IT'S ENCLOSED, IT'S COVERED, IT'S ENCLOSED, IT'S NO LONGER OUTDOOR DINING.

I THINK THE UNDERSTANDING OF NOT REQUIRING PARKING FOR OUTDOOR DINING IS THE IDEA THAT IT'S NOT AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME.

YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THIS WON'T BE IT WON'T BE USABLE.

THIS IS JUST A BONUS. YOU HAVE THIS AVAILABLE WHEN THE WEATHER PERMITS AND YOU DON'T.

BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN, AND THIS IS EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE CITY FOR OUTDOOR DINING IS IN THE END, IT'S NOT REALLY OUTDOOR DINING. IT'S COVERED, IT'S ENCLOSED, THERE'S HEATERS, THERE'S FANS, IT'S YOU KNOW, IT'S AVAILABLE 365 DAYS A YEAR.

WHICH IS FINE, EXCEPT THAT WE'RE GIVING A BONUS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO PARK IT.

SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IF THE IDEA OF A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT IS ONLY FOR OUTDOOR DINING.

BUT THE CODE SPECIFICALLY SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE A SECOND OR THIRD STORY RESTAURANT IF IN THE END YOU'RE LOOKING AT A FULLY ENCLOSED DINING, THEN JUST CHANGE THE CODE TO SAY YOU CAN HAVE A RESTAURANT ON THE SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR. BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE FROM THE STAFF PERSPECTIVE, SELFISHLY, I DON'T LIKE PLAYING THAT GAME. WITH PETITIONERS.

I DON'T LIKE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, THE PUSHBACK AND WHAT WHAT'S OKAY AND WHAT'S NOT.

AND SO I JUST WELL, IF WE DECIDE WE'RE GOING TO PARK OUTDOOR DINING, THAT'S GOING TO SOLVE YOUR DILEMMA.

THE ONLY THING IS THE CODE STILL SAYS YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A RESTAURANT ON A THIRD STORY.

SO IF IT'S COVERED AND IT'S ENCLOSED, WHEN IS IT, WHEN IS IT NOT? I JUST CAN I ASK? THANK YOU. KRAMER, WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR NOT HAVING RESTAURANTS ON? IS THAT. DEWANI THAT YEAH, THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY JUST THAT SEPARATION OF USES SO THAT YOU'RE LOUDER, MORE INTENSE USES ARE SEPARATED FROM YOUR RESIDENTIAL USES.

BY THE WAY, THAT WAS 57 PAGE DOCUMENT THAT YOU GAVE US AS BACKGROUND.

DID YOU READ EVERY WORD OF IT? YEP. SORRY. IT WAS BRILLIANT THOUGH.

LIKE THOSE PEOPLE ARE REALLY BRILLIANT. AND TO SEE THAT WHAT THEY SAW KIND OF COME TO LIFE AFTER THE FACT IS PRETTY REMARKABLE.

[04:55:04]

DON'T MEASURE FROM THE PEAK OF THE ROOF, MEASURE FROM THE WHATEVER THAT IS THE MIDPOINT, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT.

IF YOU. IF YOU MEASURE. IF YOU MEASURE FROM THE PEAK, YOU'RE GOING TO GET ALL FLAT ROOFS, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE DONE AND WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW. FLAT ROOFS, JUST LIKE YOU HAD SAID IN 1994.

PRETTY WILD. ANYWAY, I'LL JUST STOP THERE. BUT I'M WITH YOU.

I DON'T AND I'M JUST WANT I DON'T IF SOMEBODY CAN, I'D LIKE A RATIONALE FOR WHY WE NOW DON'T WANT TO HAVE DINING ON SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR AND I'M, I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THE FIGHT. I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT'S TERRIBLE ALL THAT BLANKENSHIP GO FIRST.

YEAH. IF IT'S ENCLOSED SECOND, THIRD FLOOR, IT'S NO BIG DEAL.

BUT IF IT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THESE OUTDOOR THINGS AND IT'S ADJACENT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD, THEN NOISE CARRIES.

I THINK THAT'S WHY MAYBE IT WAS TAKEN AWAY A FEW YEARS AGO, BECAUSE THERE WAS A CASE WHERE A RESTAURANT ON THE SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR HAD WINDOWS OPEN AND IT WAS CAUSING SOUND TO CARRY.

THAT'S BEEN IN THERE. WE HAVE ONE DEL MAR, WHICH WAS ANNABEL'S, ANNABEL'S AND SOME CAFE LURCAT.

IT'S BEEN A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ALWAYS WAS THAT ALWAYS HAD THE, THE MULTI STOREY DINING.

BUT AS FAR AS I REMEMBER, IT WAS INTENDED THAT THE RESTAURANT AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S SO THAT YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE. SO I COULD SEE HAVING A REGULAR ENCLOSED RESTAURANT, SECOND THIRD FLOOR.

MAYBE THAT'S OKAY. BUT TO BE OPEN AIR NEXT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD MAY NOT BE OKAY.

I TOTALLY AGREE AND MY QUESTION DIRECTLY IN REFERENCE TO THAT COMMENT, THE THE PILOT PROGRAM HAD LANGUAGE ABOUT BECAUSE THAT WAS GEARED TOWARDS OPEN, RIGHT.

THE PILOT PROGRAM WAS VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHERE IT COULD BE LOCATED, COULDN'T BE WITHIN PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL.

BLOCK. AND ALSO IT COULD BE WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE TO A RESIDENTIAL.

500FT. OKAY. YEAH. SO IT ALSO IT ALSO ADDRESSED REAL SPECIFICALLY, HEY, IF THERE'S A IF THERE'S A CONDO RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN'T DO IT. AND AS I RECALL, AND THE WHOLE IDEA WAS A PILOT WAS TO SEE IF IT WORKS.

AND THIS ONE LIMITED AREA, IF IT DOESN'T WORK, IT SUNSETS, IT'S GONE.

IF IT DOES WORK, YOU COULD CONSIDER POTENTIALLY HAVING IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

WELL, I'LL TELL YOU MY. I'M AMENABLE TO HAVE TO CONSIDERING EXTENDING OR REINSTATING THE PILOT PROGRAM.

AND THE REASON I WOULD LEAN THAT DIRECTION AS OPPOSED TO PERMITTING IT AS ACCEPTABLE, IS BECAUSE SPECIFICALLY IT HAS A A PERIOD OF TIME WHICH WOULD GIVE US THE ABILITY TO GOVERN THE NUMBER THAT ARE GOING TO POTENTIALLY HIT THE STREET, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE INDEFINITE. AND IF WE HAD AND I WILL TELL YOU, I MEAN, IT WAS IT WAS UP AND RUNNING FOR FIVE YEARS AND WE GOT ONE.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE WASN'T A THERE WASN'T A THEY WEREN'T RUSHING THE GATES TO, TO GET THESE THESE THESE THESE PERMITS INTO.

THERE AREN'T VERY MANY BUILDINGS REALLY THAT QUALIFY BECAUSE CRITERIA.

YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S VERY NARROW. BUT I LIKE THAT ASPECT OF IT.

WITH IT, WE MAINTAIN A SEMBLANCE OF CONTROL IF IT HAS A SUNSET PROVISION, IN MY OPINION, AS OPPOSED TO JUST SAYING, HEY, WILLY NILLY LETS WHOEVER CAN MAKE ONE WORK, LET'S MAKE ONE WORK.

I, I, I AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A HUGE RUSH ON IT ANYWAY, BUT I, I LIKE THE PILOT ASPECT OF IT FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT IT ENDS AND WE AND A SUBSEQUENT COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS SAY, HEY, LET'S DO IT AGAIN.

IF THEY THOUGHT THEY WANTED TO DO IT AGAIN. YEAH.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF EXTENDING THE PILOT. PARTIALLY BECAUSE HURRICANE IAN HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT FIVE YEAR PERIOD AND PEOPLE WERE BUSY RECOVERING, SO THEY WEREN'T WORKING ON NEW RESTAURANT CONCEPTS NECESSARILY.

BUT EXTENDING, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A YEAR OR 18 MONTHS, A LIMITED EXTENSION POTENTIALLY, BUT REQUIRE PARKING, WHETHER THAT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS ONLY NOW OR BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO DO IT FOR ALL OUTDOOR DINING EITHER WAY.

AND THAT IT'S FOR RESTAURANTS TRULY OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, NOT WHATEVER DEFINITION YOU USE.

BECAUSE THAT WAS PART OF THE IDEA, AS I RECALL FROM A FEW YEARS AGO, WAS THE PUBLIC BENEFIT OF HAVING SOME NEW NOVEL CONCEPT.

WE WERE WILLING TO MAKE THESE TEMPORARY CHANGES.

OKAY. I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO MESS WITH ANYBODY'S BUSINESS MODEL.

AND IT'S NOT A PRIVATE THING. IT'S JUST YOU'RE PAYING A PREMIUM IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR STEAK.

I'M NOT A MEMBER, BUT I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE IF YOU WANTED TO GO TO PP, YOU DON'T GET TO GO TO PP.

YOU HAVE TO. THERE'S A WAITING LIST AND YOU GOT TO BE SPONSORED.

IT'S A RECIPROCAL RECIPROCAL. OKAY. OTHER THAN RECIPROCAL.

OKAY. WELL, YOU GET RECIPROCAL, I THINK WITH THIS WITH DEL MAR.

[05:00:03]

WHATEVER HIS OTHER RESTAURANTS ARE. YEAH. PRIME OCEAN PRIME IS CORRECT.

PRIME IN DEL MAR. I'M JUST SAYING, I DON'T WANT TO MESS.

THE BUSINESS MODEL COULD FALL FLAT. YOU'RE CHARGING PEOPLE TO TO EAT.

IT'S JUST YOU'RE CHARGING MORE FOR THE FOOD IN ADVANCE. IT'S NOT AS IF IT'S EXCLUSIVE.

ANYBODY CAN DO IT. YOU CAN'T CALL AND MAKE A RESERVATION.

ANYBODY CAN GO TO THE RESTAURANT AND EAT. YOU JUST HAVE TO PAY UP FRONT.

I CAN'T I CAN'T GO PLAY GOLF AT ARPI. I THOUGHT THIS THE ONE WHERE WHEREVER YOU HAVE TO APPLY AND BE ACCEPTED AS A MEMBER TO BE ABLE TO GO. IS THERE AN APPLICATION PROCESS? NO, IT'S IT'S NOT ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO BE A PART OF THE RESERVATION SYSTEM THAT IS APPLICABLE TO THIS ESTABLISHMENT. MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU CAN GO DO IT RIGHT, JACK, AND YOU CAN BE A PART OF IT.

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A SPONSOR. THERE'S NOT AN APPROVAL PROCESS IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A, A, IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE, IN THE RESERVATION PROCESS THAT IT TAKES TO, TO DINE AT THIS ESTABLISHMENT, THEN YOU CAN DO SO BY WALKING IN THERE AND SAYING, HEY, I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO BE A PARTICIPANT IN THIS, IN THIS PROGRAM. THAT'S WHAT IT WAS WHEN I WHEN WE FIRST DID THIS, I LOOKED INTO IT AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS. YOU JUST HAD TO PAY THE. THERE WAS NO VETTING PROCESS. IT'S JUST WRITE THE CHECK. IF THAT'S IT, THEN MAYBE THAT CAN BE WRITTEN INTO THE RULES SOMEHOW THAT IT IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT ONE IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, BUT NOT A PRIVATE CLUB HOWEVER IT'S DEFINED.

YEAH. SO I HEAR WE NEED A CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHAT A MEMBERSHIP WOULD BE.

YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW MEMBERSHIPS. AND THAT'S THE QUESTION IS ARE WE GOING TO ALLOW MEMBERSHIPS NOT JUST HERE BUT ANYWHERE IN THE CITY.

AND I THINK THAT NEEDS A CONVERSATION. MAY I? THAT MAY BE BROADER THAN JUST THIS LIMITED PILOT.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WELL, MEMBERSHIPS OF CLUBS EVERYWHERE.

WELL, SO WHEN I READ THIS ORDINANCE, I THOUGHT IT WAS A PILOT, A PILOT BEING THAT IT WOULDN'T BE AN ORDINANCE.

BUT WE MADE IT AN ORDINANCE AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE JUST THAT BLOCK.

BUT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY MAKING IT ALL A FIFTH AVENUE.

SO THERE ARE THERE'S CREEP THAT ALL IT SAYS. AND FOR ME, THIS PILOT IS JUST THE SAME BLOCK THAT IT WAS BEFORE.

IT'S JUST EXTENDING IT FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME AND MAYBE ADDING A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL DEFINITIONS LIKE PARKING.

WHAT IS A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT AS OPPOSED TO A THIRD STORY RESTAURANT? I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER IT, THE LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED. IN OTHER WORDS, LET'S NOT JUST RUBBER STAMP EXACTLY WHAT WAS PUT IN FORCE IN THE PRIVATE IN THE PRIOR ONE. LET'S, LET'S LET'S MASSAGE IT A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S WORTH CONSIDERATION, I GUESS IS KIND OF MY POINT.

CAN WE HAVE MR. MCCONNELL WEIGH IN ON THE ON THE MEMBERSHIP THING AND WHAT OUR BOUNDARIES ARE AND THAT KIND OF THING? JUST FOR CONSIDERATION, I THINK VICE MAYOR HIT IT RIGHT ON POINT.

I THINK THAT'S A WAY BROADER CONVERSATION BECAUSE MISS MARTIN MENTIONED GYMS, I MEAN, YMCA.

I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY TO GAIN ACCESS TO THAT ARE STILL TECHNICALLY OPEN TO THE PUBLIC IF YOU PAY THE MEMBERSHIP FEE.

I JUST DON'T I CAN'T THINK OF A LEGAL WAY TO DEFINE THAT IN A WAY THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO ENFORCE IT.

I JUST CAN'T, I MEAN, IF WE MET AND TRIED TO DO IT, PRIVATE CLUB IS DIFFERENT THAN MEMBERSHIP FEE.

AND I THINK THOSE DISTINCTIONS, I THINK WE COULD COME UP WITH DEFINITIONS ON.

BUT IF IF YOU'RE TRYING TO MERGE THE TWO INTO A MEMBER, I JUST WANTED TO CAUTION YOU.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT.

YEAH, I MEAN, HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. I'M FOR EXTENDING IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION OR EXPERIENCE TO MAKE ANY DECISION ON IT, AND WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH SUITABLE CRITERIA TO, TO WHAT MAKES SENSE.

I DEFINITELY WOULD WANT THE EXTENSION BASED ON A PARKING REQUIREMENT BECAUSE WE HAVE A PARKING ISSUE AND TO, TO AVOID THAT WOULD BE NEGLIGENCE ON OUR PART.

I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IT'S OUR DOWNTOWN AREA AND IT SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WITH NO MEMBERSHIP FEE CRITERIA OR NO PRIVATE CLUB STATUS WOULD HAVE TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER RESTAURANT YOU'RE WALKING INTO ON FIFTH AVENUE.

THAT'S MY GENERAL FEELING ON THE ON TO DO THE EXTENSION.

OTHER FEEDBACK. SO DEFINITIONS. COULD YOU ALSO AS WE KNOW,

[05:05:06]

THERE ARE EGRESS REQUIREMENTS, I THINK, BASED ON USES.

SO IF YOU PUT, YOU KNOW, IF THE ROOFTOP BEFORE JUST HAD ACCESS FOR MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT, THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM HAVING A COUPLE THOUSAND PEOPLE.

GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD SHOT. GOOD AFTERNOON. YES, THERE ARE EGRESS REQUIREMENTS FOR SPACES BASED ON THE USE AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THERE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE HURDLES THAT WE HAD TO GET THROUGH WITH THE CURRENT ESTABLISHMENT ON THE ROOFTOP ON FIFTH AVENUE, WHERE WE HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD TWO ACCESS POINTS FOR AN ASSEMBLY SPACE.

SO THAT WOULD BE A CHALLENGE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE WITH ANY FACILITY THAT'S UP ON A ROOFTOP OR SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR.

SO WHAT DOES THAT REQUIRE? BECAUSE I MEAN, IS THAT JUST COME WITH THE BUILDING PERMIT THAT YOU TAKE IT ONE BY ONE? THANK YOU DAVID. YES. THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES THAT ARE GOING TO GO INTO IT.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THERE? THE WIDTH OF THE STAIRWELLS WHERE THE STAIRWELLS ARE LOCATED.

THERE'S TRAVEL DISTANCES. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SPRINKLER REQUIREMENTS.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE CHECKED IN ORDER TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR EGRESS AND SAFETY. AND THAT WOULD GO THROUGH THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS.

SOMETIMES IT MIGHT CHANGE THE EXTERIOR OF A STRUCTURE.

I KNOW WE'VE LOOKED AT SOME OTHER FACILITIES WHERE THEY. IN ORDER TO MAKE THE SECOND EGRESS POINT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A STAIRWELL ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE STRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD THEN TRIGGER OTHER ISSUES WITH OTHER BOARDS AND APPROVALS, WHICH WE HAD THAT. YEP.

WHAT ELSE? ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, I THINK AND IT'S A.

I THINK AN UNDERSTANDING FROM COUNCIL OR JUST A DISCUSSION WITH COUNCIL ABOUT WHEN YOU.

AND WE'LL DEFINE IT BETTER. BUT WHEN YOU THINK OF ROOFTOP RESTAURANT, WHAT DOES THAT WHAT IS THE RATIO OF ENCLOSED SPACE AND OPEN DINING? WHAT IS THE. YOU KNOW, IF THE IDEA IS WE DON'T WANT TO BE ADDING A THIRD STORY RESTAURANT.

IF YOU KNOW THE BAR, THE KITCHEN, THE ALL THOSE AREAS, EVERYTHING'S ENCLOSED AND THEN YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF TABLES OUTSIDE.

IS THAT REALLY WHAT THAT ROOFTOP? I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

I'M JUST SAYING WE I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A BETTER, MORE DEFINED IDEA OF WHAT A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT REALLY MEANS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO JUST BE A COUPLE OF TABLES ON THE ROOFTOP.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A KITCHEN, BATHROOMS, ALL OF THE SUPPORT AREA FOR A ROOFTOP.

I THINK I DID GET FEEDBACK WHEN THIS ONE WENT IN OF LIKE, THAT IS NOT WHAT WE EXPECTED.

AND HERE'S THE THING IS, IT'S NOT JUST THE DINING FOR AN EXISTING RESTAURANT IS GOING TO BE MOVED TO THE ROOF.

I MEAN, IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF SPACE THAT GOES IN TO OPERATING A RESTAURANT.

THAT'S ALL THE STORAGE SPACE, ALL OF THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, JUST I WANT TO MAKE SURE COUNCILMAN WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST.

AND THAT IS IN, IN MASSAGING THIS LANGUAGE IS, IS WHAT MISS MARTIN IS SAYING IS 100% CORRECT, AND THAT IS THAT WE AS A COUNCIL NEED TO DETERMINE ARE WE ARE WE TRYING TO TO PUT UP GUARDRAILS SO THAT IT IS ONLY CONSIDERED TO BE OUTDOOR DINING IF WE'RE ALLOWING A RESTAURANT ON THE ROOF? I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE NOT.

MAYBE A RESTAURANT ON THE ROOF IS A RESTAURANT ON THE ROOF THAT THEY CAN HAVE OUTDOOR DINING. BUT ARE WE TRYING TO SAY IT CAN ONLY BE QUOTE UNQUOTE OUTDOOR DINING OR WHAT WE DEFINE AS OUTDOOR DINING? I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S NECESSARY.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A ROOFTOP DINING FACILITY.

I, I, I, FRANKLY, I'M OKAY WITH IT BEING A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT.

THAT HAS OUTDOOR DINING, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S A CONVERSATION FOR, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE WHERE WE STARTED WHEN WE STARTED THE PILOT PROGRAM.

WELL, I'M JUST SAYING, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M OPEN TO THE COUNCIL AND COUNCIL'S DEFINITION OR, OR WHAT THEY'RE TRYING WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. IF WE'RE ONLY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH A, A, A FACILITY ON THE ROOFTOP THAT IS GEARED PRIMARILY TOWARDS OUTDOOR DINING, WHICH MEANS SOME OF IT OBVIOUSLY HAS TO BE INDOOR.

I MEAN, WE CAN'T IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A KITCHEN IS NOT GOING TO BE SITTING OUT THE BATHROOM. SO SOME OF IT WOULD BE ENCLOSED.

BUT AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S NECESSARY. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NECESSARY TO TO PIGEONHOLED PIGEONHOLE THIS FACILITY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO DEFINE AS OUTDOOR DINING. MAYBE IT MAYBE A RESTAURANT FACILITY ON THE ROOF IS OKAY.

[05:10:03]

WE WANT TO GIVE THE PERIMETERS SO THAT THEY DON'T COME BACK AND THEN HAVE TO SAY, WELL, LET'S HAVE A LET'S HAVE VERY SPECIFIC, BUT I'M JUST SAYING MAYBE THAT SPECIFIC, SPECIFIC GUIDELINES ARE NOT GOING TO BE.

WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING OUTDOOR. IT CAN BE A RESTAURANT.

I MEAN, AND AGAIN, MAYBE NOT. I THINK THE FACTOR BEFORE WHY THEY WANTED TO CALL IT OUTDOORS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO AVOID PARKING.

YEAH. AND THEN THEY ENDED UP BUYING IT ANYWAY.

THEY DID. THEY PAID FOR IT. THEY PAID FOR THE PARKING FOR THEIR OUTDOOR DINING THAT THEY WERE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY FOR.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO MORE THAN LIKELY AVOID THAT SCENARIO, THAT SITUATION, IF WE PUT LANGUAGE IN THE NEW PILOT PROGRAM THAT SAYS THEY NEED TO PAY.

THEY NEED TO PARK THEIR OUTDOOR THEIR OUTDOOR DINING FACILITY.

MY POINT IS IF THERE, IF THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO BENEFIT TO THEM TRYING TO CALL THIS OUTDOOR WHEN IT'S REALLY NOT OUTDOOR, THEN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO TRY TO MAKE IT OUTDOOR.

IF IN FACT, WE ARE ALLOWING JUST A RESTAURANT FACILITY ON, ON, ON THE ROOFTOP.

YEAH, IT WAS A, IT WAS A COMBINATION BECAUSE THE CODE DOESN'T CURRENTLY OR PREVIOUSLY.

THE WAY THE CODE WAS WRITTEN IS RESTAURANTS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THE SECOND OR THIRD STORY.

SO THERE IS INTENDED TO BE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN A SECOND OR THIRD STORY RESTAURANT AND A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT.

I THINK THE DISTINCTION THERE WAS OUTDOOR. BUT LIKE I SAID, WELL, I KNOW OUTDOOR DINING IN THE CITY AGAIN.

YEAH, I THINK IT'S WORTH OUR TIME TO CONSIDER IT A A VERSION OF THE PILOT.

AND THAT WOULD THAT WOULD CONSIST OF OF US AS A COUNCIL, MASSAGING THE LANGUAGE AND SEEING EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT TO PERMIT AND NOT PERMIT IN THIS PARTICULAR PILOT, ASSUMING WE PERMIT THE PILOT AT ALL.

SO TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL, WHAT I'M HEARING IS TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL OR COME BACK TO COUNCIL WITH SOME LANGUAGE.

STILL A PILOT PROGRAM. SO WE'RE NOT CODIFYING THIS INDEFINITELY.

CAN YOU CAN I HAVE AN IDEA OF WE'RE LOOKING AT A YEAR, TWO YEARS, TEN YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU IN REFERENCE TO THAT. WHAT WOULD MAKE SENSE FROM A STANDPOINT OF SOMEONE DOING A, FIGURING OUT WHETHER THEIR, THEIR LOCATION IS A, IS ONE THAT WOULD WORK UNDER THE NEW GUISE OF THE PILOT AND THEN GOING THROUGH PERMITTING AND CONSTRUCTION AND EVERYTHING ELSE. I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK? YEAH. IF THE THRESHOLD IS THAT THEY THEY'D HAVE TO PULL A BUILDING PERMIT BEFORE THE SUN SETTING.

OKAY. SO, SO TWO YEARS MINIMUM BECAUSE TO GET THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS AND IS THAT IS THAT TWO YEARS, I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMEONE THAT ALREADY KNOWS AND THEY'RE AND THEY'RE JUMPING ON IT. I MEAN, MAYBE THREE YEARS IS PROBABLY A MORE REALISTIC NUMBER.

YEAH, I WOULD SAY MINIMUM. OKAY. AM I WRONG? YOU LOOK CONCERNED LEGALLY.

YES. ONCE THE APPLICATION ONCE THE APPLICATION IS DEEMED COMPLETE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE MADE A DECISION WITHIN 180 DAYS, WHICH IS SIX MONTHS. OKAY. MAY TAKE A WHILE TO GET A COMPLETE APPLICATION, BUT I DON'T SEE A SCENARIO.

I MEAN, THE AREA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BASED ON THE CODE SECTION, IS ONE BLOCK.

YEAH. I MEAN, SOMEONE HASN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT ALREADY.

THEN THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY PROBABLY THEY'RE NOT.

WELL. AND AGAIN, THAT MAY BE THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER IT'S IT IS JUST STILL ONE BLOCK. AND IF WE THE IMPORTANT THING ABOUT NOISE AND RESIDENCES, OBVIOUSLY THAT NEEDS. WE NEED TO HAVE REALLY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IN THERE.

BUT IF WE EXPAND IT BEYOND ONE BLOCK, THAT. THEREFORE, THERE MIGHT BE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS THAT ARE GOING TO GO, OOH, CAN I DO THIS? AND IT MAY TAKE SIX MONTHS FOR THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY, YOU KNOW, THEIR ARCHITECT AND THEIR PLANNER TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY POTENTIALLY ARE A VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR. I CAN BRING BACK TO YOU IN THIS DISCUSSION, THE STUDY THAT WAS DONE THAT PRODUCED THIS VERY NARROW.

SO YOU CAN SEE IT WAS A STUDY OF ALL THE RESIDENTIAL ON FIFTH AND WHY THIS BLOCK WAS CHOSEN.

SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ELSEWHERE.

IF THAT'S I'M SURE, YES, THAT INFORMATION WOULD BE VALUABLE IN MY OPINION, FOR US TO, TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT AND, AND AGAIN, I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S WORTHY OF OUR DISCUSSION WHETHER AND HOW THAT DISCUSSION GOES AND WHAT PARAMETERS WE PUT ON THE PILOT PROGRAM WILL BE DEPENDENT ON HOW THOSE THIS CONVERSATION GOES. THE CONCERN I HAVE IS IT BECOMING A NONCONFORMITY.

AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YEAH. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF WE WERE TO DO NOTHING AND JUST LET THE, THE ORDINANCE EXPIRE, THE ONE BUSINESS THAT WE HAVE WOULD BECOME WHAT WE CALL LAWFUL NON-CONFORMING, MEANING IT WAS LAWFUL AT THE TIME IT WAS ESTABLISHED, BUT A CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT, GOVERNMENT ACTION MADE IT NO LONGER LAWFUL SO THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO REPAIR AND MAINTAIN. WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THEM SHUT DOWN. THEY'D BE THEY'D BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE AS A RESTAURANT.

THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO EXPAND WITHOUT APPROVAL FROM COUNCIL.

SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN EXPANSION REQUEST.

OR IF THEY WANTED TO MAKE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO THAT BUSINESS, IT WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH COUNCIL.

AND THEN ALSO, IF IT'S IF THEY IF THAT ESTABLISHMENT WENT OUT OF BUSINESS AND IT CEASED TO OPERATE AS A ROOFTOP RESTAURANT FOR 12 MONTHS,

[05:15:05]

WELL, THAT'S WHAT IT IS NOW, ISN'T IT? SINCE THE ORDINANCE TODAY, IT IS A IT'S A LAWFUL NONCONFORMITY TODAY.

YES. UNLESS AND UNTIL WE EXTEND THIS. RIGHT. YEAH.

YOU YOU KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH. IT THIS ORDINANCE HAS EXPIRED.

IT HAS EXPIRED. YES. RIGHT. SO THERE IS NO SPECIAL THERE IS NOT A PILOT PROGRAM.

THERE IS NO PILOT PROGRAM RIGHT NOW, OKAY? THERE ARE NO OR NO REGULATIONS THAT WOULD ALLOW A ROOFTOP DINING ESTABLISHMENT RIGHT NOW.

SO IT WOULDN'T BE AN EXTENSION. IT WOULD BE A REINSTATEMENT. YES, IT WOULD BE, YEAH.

AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND WHAT A NONCONFORMITY MEANS.

BECAUSE WE'RE REALLY CREATING A SITUATION WHERE IT WOULD HAVE.

SO HE WILL REMAIN NONCONFORMING IF, IF WE, IF COUNCIL CHOOSES TO REINSTATE AND, YOU KNOW, CHANGES THE PARAMETERS, THE APPROVALS THAT WERE GRANTED TO THIS STAND.

SO HE HAS HIS APPROVALS, WE WOULDN'T THEN GO BACK AND MAKE HIM, YOU KNOW, CHANGE HIS BUSINESS TO FIT THE REGULATIONS THAT YOU PUT IN TODAY.

YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S CONCERNING TO ME. OKAY. THAT WE WOULD MAKE THEM NOT BE ABLE TO OPERATE.

WE WOULD NOT DO THAT. THEY THEY ARE LOCKED IN.

BUT THEY'RE THEY'RE THEY'RE AFFORDED THE APPROVAL THAT THEY HAVE.

AND THEY CAN CONTINUE TO OPERATE UNDER THE APPROVAL THAT THEY HAVE.

THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD CHANGE, THAT WOULD BE IF THEY CEASED OPERATION OR IF THEY WANTED TO MAKE SOME, LIKE A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE THAT WOULD REQUIRE COUNCIL ACTION.

SO REALLY, WE'RE LOOKING AT NUMBER FOUR, REVISE THE REGULATIONS AND REINSTATE THE PROVISION.

I THINK SO WE'RE LOOKING AT YEAH. US COMING BACK TO YOU WITH SOME SOME LANGUAGE OPTIONS BECAUSE YOU NEED DEFINITIONS.

CAN I JUST ONE OTHER CONSENSUS THING. SO FROM STANDPOINT OF COMING BACK TO YOU IT'S THOUGH WITH REQUIRED PARKING.

YES. YES. OKAY. YES. AND AS FAR AS THE FOOTPRINT OR THE AREA, IF IT'S A ONE BLOCK AREA, WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU AS IT'S WRITTEN. YOU'LL HAVE THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION AND SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO EXPAND IT.

BUT WHEN WE COME BACK TO YOU IN THE WRITTEN FORM, IT'S THE EXACT SAME BLOCK THAT WAS ALREADY DEFINED.

BUT YOU'LL HAVE MORE INFORMATION PRIOR TO THAT.

THAT WAY WE'RE COMING BACK WITH SOMETHING TO ACT UPON RATHER THAN ANOTHER DISCUSSION.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS SATISFACTORY. THAT WORKS FOR ME.

YEAH. YES. OKAY. AND THEN WHETHER IT'S THE SECOND FLOOR OR THIRD FLOOR OR ROOFTOP, YEAH, WE'LL I'LL SEE WHAT I CAN FIND AS FAR AS DEFINITION LANGUAGE TO SEE WHAT, HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT.

SO COULD I ASK ONE QUESTION? I MEAN, THE ONES THAT OPERATE RIGHT NOW, ARE THEY ALL NONCONFORMING? WHAT DEL MAR HAS A SECOND? I MEAN, IS THAT NOT A SECOND FLOOR RESTAURANT? IT IS. AND THEY AND THEY DID GET APPROVAL FOR THAT AS A NONCONFORMITY.

YES. THAT'S BEEN A NONCONFORMITY FOREVER. OKAY.

ANYTHING ELSE? NOT FOR ME. I'LL BE. I'LL BRING THIS BACK TO YOU.

JUST MAKE SURE THEY CAN PUT EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE INSIDE THE BUILDING. YEAH.

NO STORAGE SHEDS? NO. NO. I GET COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT.

NO COOLERS. AGREED. WE NEED A BREAK. I COULD.

I COULD DO THE NEXT 1 IN 5 MINUTES. OR WE COULD TAKE A BREAK.

LET'S. LET'S TAKE A BREAK. WE'LL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK.

OKAY. WE'RE BACK FROM OUR SHORT BREAK, AND WE'RE CONTINUING ON WITH ITEM FIVE E.

[5.E) Overview Qualified Contractor review HB 927 Discussion.]

ESSENTIALLY, IT REQUIRES LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO ESTABLISH A REGISTRY OF AT LEAST FOUR QUALIFIED CONTRACTORS OR TWO QUALIFIED CONTRACTOR FIRMS, WHICH SHALL BE USED TO SUPPLEMENT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS STAFF RESOURCES AND WAYS DETERMINED BY THE RESPECTIVE GOVERNING BODY.

THIS IS REALLY FOR PRE-APPLICATION MEETINGS AS IT RELATES TO ANY DEVELOPMENT ORDERS PURSUANT TO 166.033, WHICH ARE SITE PLANS. THINGS OF THAT NATURE. HOWEVER, THIS IS ONLY ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVALS,

[05:20:01]

IT ALSO RELATES TO PRELIMINARY PLATS AND PLATS WHICH WE'VE DISCUSSED IS ALREADY ADMINISTRATIVE BASED ON LAST YEAR, AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE A WORKSHOP ITEM ON SUBDIVISIONS AND RE PLATS AT YOUR NOVEMBER WORKSHOP, SO STAY TUNED. BUT WHAT THIS DOES, WHAT THIS LAW ALSO ALLOWS IS FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH ANOTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE PURPOSE OF USING PUBLIC EMPLOYEES INSTEAD OF ACTUAL FIRMS TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A QUALIFIED CONTRACTOR.

SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS THE LAST THREE MONTHS, I WOULD SAY THE COUNTY REACHED OUT TO US INITIALLY TO SEE IF WE WOULD ENTER INTO AN INTERLOCAL. AND OVER THE SUMMER BREAKS, WE MET A COUPLE TIMES WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND THEM AND LEGAL.

AND THIS IS KIND OF JUST A FYI BECAUSE THAT AGREEMENT.

BUT FOR THE RECIPROCAL FEE THAT I THINK IS STILL OUTSTANDING ON WHAT WE WILL CHARGE THEM AND THEY WILL CHARGE US.

IT WILL BE THE SAME IF SOMEONE DOES INTEND TO USE THIS PROCESS IS THE FINAL STEP OF THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.

BEING ADDED TO A FUTURE CITY COUNCIL MEETING HAS TO BE THIS CALENDAR YEAR.

JUST BECAUSE WE NEED THIS IN PLACE BY JANUARY 1ST OF 2027.

SO WITH THAT, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. BUT THAT'S KIND OF A HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW.

SO THIS IS COMING BACK TO US FOR A FORMAL VOTE OF SOME SORT.

THE ACTUAL AGREEMENT, THE PURPOSE OF ME ADDING THIS TO A WORKSHOP IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE CITY MANAGER WAS THAT TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS NOW, IN HOPES THAT WE COULD JUST ADD IT TO THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR A FUTURE PUBLIC HEARING? PERFECT. GOT IT. SO IS THIS KIND OF LIKE A PRIVATE PROVIDER? NO, BECAUSE THEY'RE PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. BUT YES, KIND OF IF WE USED QUALIFIED FIRMS, RIGHT? SO ESSENTIALLY THERE ARE EXPEDITED TIME FRAMES ON REVIEWS, BUT THIS IS ONLY FOR PRE-APPLICATION SERVICES.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S PUT THIS INTO PLAY FOR A MINUTE.

IN OUR LOCAL AGREEMENT IT'S JANUARY 2ND. OKAY.

WE'VE ENTERED INTO THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, ESSENTIALLY A DEVELOPER WHO WANTS TO DEVELOP SOMETHING IN OUR CITY AND REQUEST A DEVELOPMENT ORDER THAT IS ADMINISTRATIVE ONLY.

OKAY. WOULD REACH OUT TO THE COUNTY TO HAVE THEIR QUALIFIED CONTRACTORS REVIEW, HAVE A PRE-APPLICATION MEETING WITH THEM BASED ON OUR CODE, AND WITHIN FIVE DAYS DEEM THEIR APPLICATION COMPLETE OR NOT.

WHEN I SAY IT OUT LOUD, IT DOES SEEM HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT SOMEONE WILL ACTUALLY DO THIS.

BUT I THINK THE FACT THAT WE'RE USING OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEES AS OPPOSED TO PRIVATE QUALIFIED FIRMS ACTUALLY WILL PROBABLY RESULT IN LESS USAGE OF THIS PROCESS. BUT THE PRE-APPLICATION WOULD HAPPEN.

THEY WOULD DEEM THE APPLICATION COMPLETE, AND THEN THAT WOULD TRIGGER THE CITY EITHER APPROVING, DENYING OR APPROVING CONDITIONS WITHIN 45 DAYS.

SINCE IT'S SINCE IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS.

IT DOES NOT MAKE THINGS THAT ARE NOT ALREADY ADMINISTRATIVE ADMINISTRATIVE, THOUGH.

I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. RIGHT? THAT'S ONLY THINGS IN OUR CODE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE ADMINISTRATIVE.

WELL, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING BESIDES THE PD AND OUTDOOR DINING AND WELL, I'M SORRY.

I MEAN, IT IS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LITTLE WRINKLE.

WE HAVE THE DRB, RIGHT, FOR A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE KIND OF.

SO THAT'S STILL A BOARD, RIGHT? IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ADMINISTRATIVE BECAUSE YOU NEED DRB TO, TO SPEAK ON DESIGN AT TIMES. THIS WOULD BE LIKE A PERMITTED USE SITE PLAN, RIGHT? SOMETHING THAT'S ABSOLUTELY ALLOWED WITHIN THE SETBACKS, ETC.

DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY PUBLIC HEARINGS AT ALL. AND IN THE ABSENCE AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MR. MCCONNELL, IN THE ABSENCE OF US DELINEATING THE COUNTY, THEN IT WOULD JUST HAVE TO DELINEATE SOMEBODY, RIGHT. WHO IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT. CORRECT.

WE'D HAVE TO EITHER WE COULD EITHER PARTNER WITH ANOTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT OR USE TWO QUALIFIED FIRMS. CORRECT. BUT YOU NEED AT LEAST FOUR QUALIFIED CONTRACTORS, AN ENGINEER, PLANNER, SURVEYOR, ETC.. AND DO WE REVIEW WHAT, LIKE RIGHT NOW? IF THERE'S A THIRD PARTY PROVIDER WE DON'T DOUBLE CHECK THE THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS INFORMATION, THEY JUST SUBMIT IT

[05:25:03]

HERE THERE IS AND I DON'T KNOW IF. I'M NOT MR. BECKMAN, SO I WON'T SPEAK ON THAT FIRST STATEMENT. BUT IN THIS SITUATION I CAN SAY THAT THIS IS A PRE-APPLICATION.

CORRECT? RIGHT. SO THIS DOES NOT GRANT THEM APPROVAL.

CITY STAFF STILL REVIEWS IT AGAINST OUR CODE BEFORE ISSUING THE APPROVAL, DENIAL OR APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.

THIS IS STRICTLY FOR PRE-APPLICATION PURPOSES PRIOR TO SUBMITTING, ESSENTIALLY.

AND THIS IS TO MAKE THE PROCESS. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS.

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I GET I MEAN, I THINK THE INTENT, THE INTENT IS TO MAKE IT MORE STREAMLINED TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE CONTRACTORS QUALIFIED TO REVIEW CERTAIN THINGS WITHIN A TIMELY MANNER.

I WILL SAY IT SPEEDS UP THE REVIEW TIMELINE OF A PRE-APPLICATION.

YOU HAVE FIVE DAYS. THERE'S STILL SOME COORDINATING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN WITH THE COUNTY THAT I NEED TO WORK WITH.

MR.. MR.. YOUNG ON LIKE THE LAST QUESTION WAS FEES AND WHO GETS THE APPLICATION FIRST, RIGHT.

SO IF YOU'RE IF YOU WANT TO USE THE QUALIFIED CONTRACTORS OF THE COUNTY, WE BELIEVE IT'S BEST THAT YOU SEND THE APPLICATION TO THE CITY FIRST AND THEN REQUEST THIS, AND THEN WE SHIP IT OFF TO THE COUNTY, AS OPPOSED TO YOU GOING DIRECTLY TO THE COUNTY FOR A PROJECT THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.

SO YOU'LL BRING IT BACK TO US WITH THAT TYPE OF DETAIL OF HOW THE PROCESS WILL WORK.

THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WILL. IT ALREADY DOES.

BUT THERE WERE SOME LAST MINUTE QUESTIONS THAT WE NEED ADDRESSED.

AT THE COUNTY LEVEL BEFORE BRINGING IT BACK. CORRECT.

AND MATTHEW, IF I MAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE A LOT OF FOLKS CONFUSE THESE TWO THINGS.

IT WOULD NOT PERMIT ANY CONDITIONAL USE OR VARIANCE.

UNLESS FOR SOME REASON, A JURISDICTION HAD THOSE BE ADMINISTRATIVE FOR US? NO. YEAH. IN THE CITY OF NAPLES. NO. NO CONTINUOUS USE OR VARIANCE WOULD BE CORRECT.

GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS. NOTHING THAT REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING. RIGHT.

FOR APPROVAL. RIGHT. JUST HAD TO SAY THAT FOR THE RECORD.

IT'S A GOOD DISTINCTION. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH. HOW IS THIS GOING TO SPEED THINGS UP? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF BUREAUCRATIC CREEP HERE.

YEAH. HOW'S THIS? THIS DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.

I MEAN, I DON'T. AND MAKING ANYTHING FASTER OTHER THAN IT'S A RUBBER STAMPING MACHINE OR SOMETHING.

I MEAN, REVIEW TIME. LIKE I SAID ONCE. I MEAN, YOU HAVE FIVE DAYS TO DEEM AN APPLICATION COMPLETE, WHICH TRIGGERS A 45 DAY APPROVAL TIME FRAME. I MEAN, THAT'S PRETTY QUICK.

IF SOMEONE USES THIS, RIGHT. I MEAN, IT DOES IT DOES SPEED UP THE BUILDING LIKE THE, THE APPROVAL AT THE ADMINISTRATIVE LEVEL A LITTLE QUICKER BECAUSE GENERALLY SPEAKING, IN STATUTES, CITIES HAVE 120 DAYS.

IF IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A PUBLIC HEARING, THIS MAKES IT 45 FROM COMPLETION, WHICH IS, I MEAN, SIGNIFICANTLY QUICKER 75 DAYS. THE PROCEDURE I'M TALKING ABOUT IS DIFFERENT.

WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST MAKE IT, SAY, PUT A. IT HAS TO BE 45 DAYS.

YEAH. WELL, LET'S NOT GET WHY THEY HAVE TO BRING.

YEAH. WHAT IS THIS, ANOTHER POWER GRAB? I MEAN, THIS IS LIKE ANOTHER.

THIS IS THIS IS LIKE IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE. IT'S NOT HELPFUL TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE. THIS IS AGAIN I DON'T SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL UTILIZE THIS, BUT IT'S THERE.

THERE'S A DEADLINE. I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PARTNER WITH THE COUNTY.

I THINK MARCO'S GOING TO PARTNER WITH THE COUNTY, SO WE MAY HAVE A TRIPLE INTERLOCAL.

EVERGLADES CITY DOESN'T HAVE 10,000 CITIZENS, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS.

YOU KNOW, JOHN, JUST TO I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS ON THIS, BUT IT COULD BE HELPFUL IS MAYBE AVON PARK DOESN'T HAVE A.

THEY DON'T HAVE A BIG STUFF. ANYONE AT THE CURRENT TIME. THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE THEY NEED TO PROCESS APPLICATIONS. AND SO NOW THEY CAN GO TO HIGHLANDS COUNTY AND HAVE THE COUNTY HELP THEM OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER SMALL YOU THINK OF ALL THOSE SMALL LITTLE TOWNS ALONG US 27 FROSTPROOF OR WHEREVER.

AND IN THAT CASE, IT MAY REALLY HELP THEM TO GET STUFF DONE.

THEY COULDN'T GET DONE. WE DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE WITH STAFF. THAT'S.

I'M JUST SPITBALLING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, NO PUBLIC COMMENT.

MOVING TO ITEM FIVE F. YES. THANK YOU MAYOR. SO.

[5.F) Discussion concerning the City’s Established Airport Utilization Plan Approval Process.]

THOSE OF YOU THAT WERE HERE REMEMBER ASKING OUR OFFICE TO DRAFT AN OPINION ON THE UTILIZATION PLAN.

[05:30:05]

BUT WE DRAFTED A MEMO AND PRESENTED IT RIGHT BEFORE SUMMER BREAK, MAY OF 25 TO THE PRIOR COUNCIL.

I THOUGHT NOW THAT. THERE ARE CERTAIN PROCESSES THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETE AND THERE MAY BE SOME APPLICATIONS SUBMITTED BY THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY. IT WAS A GOOD TIME TO JUST LAY OUT THE BASE LEVEL OF WHAT WE BELIEVE THE OPINION STANDS FOR, SO THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE MOVING FORWARD, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

THIS OPINION WENT THROUGH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, CODE OF ORDINANCES.

IT RESULTED IN A STRONG SUGGESTION BY ME AND MR. DICKMAN TO CHANGE YOUR CODE. THERE WAS SOME TERMINOLOGY THAT NEEDED CHANGING.

THERE WERE SOME CLARIFICATION THAT COULD HAPPEN. SO WHAT OCCURRED FOR YOU, NEW MEMBERS OR NEWER MEMBERS IS AN EIGHT MONTH PROCESS WHERE WE DRAFTED AN ORDINANCE, WENT TO THE NA MULTIPLE TIMES, AND THEN BROUGHT IT BACK TO COUNCIL FOR FIRST READING.

THE LAST MEETING OF THE LAST COUNCIL, AND I BELIEVE IT PASSED.

AND THEN WHEN IT CAME UP AGAIN, THERE WAS DIRECTION FROM THIS COUNCIL TO NOT FURTHER PUSH THAT ORDINANCE.

SO WHERE WE ARE NOW IS WE ARE INTERPRETING THE CODES AS WE HAVE THEM ON THE BOOKS.

AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, I'M GOING TO KEEP IT VERY SIMPLE BECAUSE THIS TO ME IS THE EASIEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND THE UTILIZATION PLAN PROCESS.

SO CHAPTER 58 OR SECTION 5861 SAYS THIS PROVIDED THAT AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR ALL AIRPORT PROPERTIES IS FIRST SUBMITTED TO THE CITY PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD FOR RECOMMENDATION AND IS THEN APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY NO BUILDING OR STRUCTURE OR PART THEREOF SHALL BE ERECTED OR ALTERED OR USED, OR LAND OR WATER USED IN WHOLE OR IN PART IN THE SEA.

FOR DISTRICT THAT IS NOT IN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPROVED OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

THAT TO ME IS THE EASIEST WAY TO SEE THIS. WHERE ARE YOU? SECTION 58. SIX. 81. CITY CODE. IT'S ACTUALLY PAGE I'M SORRY.

PAGE FIVE. PAGE FIVE OF MY OPINION. YES. THAT'S WHERE I WAS.

NO WORRIES. BIG BLOCK QUOTE. HALFWAY DOWN. SO WHAT WE BELIEVE THAT MEANS, AND IT'S REALLY THE ONLY WAY TO INTERPRET THAT IS. THE UTILIZATION UTILIZATION PLAN NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE PLANNING BOARD FOR RECOMMENDATION AND OVERALL APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL AND ALL DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE C FOUR ON THE AIRPORT PROPERTY NEEDS TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY IN COMPLIANCE WITH THAT PLAN, PERIOD. I MEAN, I CAN I CAN KEEP GOING, BUT THAT THAT'S REALLY THE INTERPRETATION THAT I THINK GETS US. SOMETIMES WE USE DIFFERENT TERMS. BUT YOU'RE SAYING THE UTILIZATION PLAN IS THE SAME AS AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

THERE'S SYNONYMOUS. THAT'S NO. YES. YES. DIFFERENT THAN THE AIRPORT MASTER PLAN.

BUT THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. BECAUSE IF IF THE CITY'S POSITION IS THAT IT IS NOT, THEN WE HAVE NO REGULATIONS ON THE UTILIZATION PLAN BESIDES WHAT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, THE OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN.

AND HOW LONG HAS THIS CODE SECTION BEEN ON THE BOOKS? QUITE. QUITE A WHILE. A LONG, QUITE A WHILE. SINCE 1969.

CORRECT. CORRECT. NO, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

I'LL GET YOU. I'LL GET YOU THE ANSWER HERE IN A MINUTE.

I WANT TO SAY IT WAS THE 90S. SO SHOULD WE START USING THIS METHODOLOGY.

THIS PHRASEOLOGY INSTEAD OF UTILIZATION PLAN.

CALL IT AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN? NO.

OR JUST TO BE CLEAR THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE.

WE CAN ALTHOUGH MY SUGGESTION WAS AT A MINIMUM, WHICH I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO SAY UNTIL YOU GUYS ALLOW ME TO DO SO IS UPDATE THE TERMINOLOGY, DON'T CHANGE THE PROCESS, JUST AT LEAST UPDATE THE TERMINOLOGY.

WE'RE GOING THROUGH A COMP PLAN REWRITE, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT A REWRITE BUT AN UPDATE ELECTIVE. THERE'S GOING TO BE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

THOSE COMP PLAN CHANGES ARE GOING TO RESULT. AND WE'VE ALREADY PAID OUR CONTRACTOR FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATION CHANGES.

[05:35:05]

KRAMER, THIS IS HOW THIS I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE ON THE WHEEL OF A HAMSTER WHEEL.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST CAME ON, THIS IS WHAT WE SAID. AND IT'S JUST SO COMMON SENSE.

WE NEED TO BE CONSISTENT IN THE LANGUAGE WE USE THROUGHOUT OUR CODE AN ORDINANCE AND COMP PLAN AND ALL OF IT.

AND THAT'S ALL THAT. AND I'LL SAY THIS MATTHEW WANTED NO PART OF WRITING WHAT HE HAD TO WRITE THAT WE FORCED HIM INTO.

HE WAS REALLY JUST TRYING TO GET CONSISTENCY IN LANGUAGE.

AND THEN IT BOUNCED BACK ON US. SO I THINK THAT WE SHOULD AT THE VERY LEAST KNOW AT ALL WE SHOULD DO RIGHT NOW.

LET ME REPHRASE THAT. ALL WE SHOULD DO RIGHT NOW IS GET THE LANGUAGE CONSISTENT.

THAT'S THAT'S MY OPINION. SO IF SOMETHING CAME IN RIGHT NOW, AND I JUST WANT TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR, BECAUSE WHERE THE WORD AIRPORT UTILIZATION CAME IN WAS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ELEMENT.

SO EITHER THERE WAS A CHANGE TO TERMINOLOGY IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FIRST THAT NEVER MADE IT TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, OR VICE VERSA. IF AN APPLICATION CAME IN RIGHT NOW, OKAY.

AND UPON SITE PLAN REVIEW STAFF DETERMINED WITH THE HELP OF LEGAL THAT WHAT'S BEING ASKED FOR IS NOT.

IT'S NOT SUBSTANTIALLY IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAST APPROVED PLAN.

WHAT WOULD OCCUR IS. THEY WOULD EITHER THEY WOULD.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO UPDATE THEIR UTILIZATION PLAN IN ORDER FOR THE SITE PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD FOR WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.

WHAT THE PROCESS IS FOR THAT REVIEW PROCESS IS IT MIRRORS THE SITE PLAN PROCESS.

RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT IT DOES. IT MIRRORS THE SITE PLAN PROCESS IN CHAPTER 46 FOR THE PROCESSING, WHICH IS FINE. BUT THAT'S REALLY THE ANALYSIS THAT COMES IN.

YOU LOOK AT IT, IT WOULD BENEFIT THE NAPLES AIRPORT AUTHORITY.

AND I THINK BASED ON THEIR LATEST RENDERING OF THEIR UTILIZATION PLAN THAT THEY PRESENTED TO THEIR BOARD A COUPLE MONTHS BACK.

THEY'VE TAKEN OUR ADVICE AND THEY'VE HEARD THIS COUNCIL LOUD AND CLEAR.

BE MORE SPECIFIC, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT, HOW IS STAFF SUPPOSED TO DETERMINE IF IF IT'S IN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE, IF ALL YOU HAVE IS BOXES AND SHADES, RIGHT? SO IT BENEFITS BOTH SIDES TO HAVE MORE SPECIFICITY.

AND I THINK BASED ON THE LAST VERSION THAT I'VE SEEN, THEY'VE DONE THAT.

THEY'VE USED THE SPECIFICS OF THEIR AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN THAT GOES TO THE FAA, AND IT LOOKS A LOT BETTER THAN ANYTHING THE CITY'S EVER APPROVED BEFORE.

SO IT'S NOT EVERY PERMIT ON THE AIRPORT. IT'S NOT EVERY PERMIT ON THE AIRPORT.

RIGHT. THEY'RE STILL BUILDING PERMITS THAT GET ISSUED. THERE ARE STILL INTERNAL RENOVATIONS. THERE'S A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN THAT ARE NOT CHANGING THE BUILDING ENVELOPE ON THE UTILIZATION PLAN. BUT I JUST WANTED US ALL TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE BECAUSE THERE WAS A PROJECT THAT RECENTLY WENT TO THE DRB.

THEY HAVEN'T APPROVED. THEY HAVEN'T SUPPLIED SITE PLAN YET, BUT WHEN THEY DO, WE WILL ANALYZE IT THIS WAY.

AND IF THE DETERMINATION IS IT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE, THEN THE CITY'S POSITION WILL BE YOU HAVE TO UPDATE YOUR UTILIZATION PLAN.

MR.. MR. MCCONNELL, DOES THE CODE SECTION 58 682 B STILL REMAIN IN THE CODE? IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE READING? YES, THAT IS WHAT I'M CORRECT. THAT IS THAT SECTION THAT'S IN THE MIDDLE.

YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE I CITE IT RIGHT UNDERNEATH. THE PARAGRAPH.

BUT THERE'S A B OF THAT SECTION OF 58. SIX. 82.

THIS DOESN'T HAVE 58. SIX. 82. OH, HERE IT IS.

58. SIX. 82. BE CORRECT. NOW, NOW, B ALSO HAS A LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE PERMITTED.

BUT FOR THE THE PLAN ITSELF I THOUGHT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

AND AGAIN I DRAFTED THIS A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

[05:40:04]

BOTTOM OF PAGE FIVE GOING INTO PAGE SIX. LAST SENTENCE ON PAGE FIVE.

ON THE BOTTOM. IT ALSO DEFINES AN AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN AS A SET OF SCALE DRAWINGS, AND PROVIDES A GRAPHIC REPRESENTATION OF THE EXISTING AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE AIRPORT, AND DEMONSTRATES THE PRESERVATION AND CONTINUITY OF SAFETY, UTILITY, UTILITY, AND EFFICIENCY AT THE AIRPORT SECTION 58107, TWO OF THE CITY'S LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CONTAINS THE SAME DEFINITION.

NO SPECIFIC DEFINITION COULD COULD BE FOUND FOR AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN.

WHAT MY OPINION ESSENTIALLY SAYS IS THAT WE BELIEVE THE AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE, BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT MORE NOW THAN I DID BEFORE.

THE AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I DO BELIEVE THAT AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN IS IN FACT, THE OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY LOGICAL THING THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS IN 58682 B THAT PROVIDED THAT AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE AIRPORT PROPERTIES IS FIRST SUBMITTED.

CORRECT. WHICH WE COULD WE COULD SAY FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, AKA AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN.

WELL, NO, IT GOES IN. WELL, IT WOULD BE SEPARATE.

A UTILIZATION PLAN IS SEPARATE. NO. AND THE CITY HAS NEVER TREATED IT THAT WAY.

WAIT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN? WE'VE NEVER TREATED A UTILIZATION PLAN SEPARATELY IN AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO TO MAKE THINGS EVEN MORE CONFUSING, THERE IS A AIRPORT MASTER PLAN. WHICH IS SEPARATE AND APART. FAA REQUIRED AIRPORT MASTER PLAN.

RIGHT. WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A FUTURE LAND USE DOCUMENT, RIGHT? IT'S A 20 YEAR HORIZON THAT GOES TO FAA, AND FDOT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE CITY IN THE PAST.

THEN THERE'S AN FAA TERM, CORRECT? I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

NO, IT'S NOT AN FAA TERM. IT'S A PLAN. IT'S A PLAN.

AIRPORT MASTER PLAN. THEY HAVE THREE PLANS AIRPORT MASTER PLAN, WHICH I JUST SPECIFIED.

THEN THEY HAVE AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN, WHICH GETS UPDATED ANNUALLY BECAUSE ANYTIME THERE'S A CHANGE, THEY HAVE TO SEND AN UPDATE TO THE FAA. AND THEN BASED ON MY RESEARCH, THERE IS AN AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN, WHICH IS VERY SPECIFIC. I WANT TO GO OUT ON A LIMB AND SAY, WE'RE PROBABLY THE ONLY CITY THAT HAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AND IT IS A LOCAL DOCUMENT THAT THE CITY HAS OFTEN REVIEWED PERIODICALLY THAT HAS DIAGRAMS. IT HAS A TABLE OF CURRENT AND FUTURE USES AND WHAT THEY PLAN ON DOING AT THE AIRPORT.

THE WORD AIRPORT UTILIZATION PLAN IS NOWHERE IN YOUR CODE.

IT IS IN YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO EITHER THE COMP PLAN WAS CHANGED AND THE CODE WASN'T, OR VICE VERSA. I CAN'T SPEAK ON THAT, BUT IT'S MY LEGAL OPINION THAT WHEN IT SAYS OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, YOUR CODE IS TALKING ABOUT THE AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS TO THE CITY PERIODICALLY.

ANY QUESTIONS? GREAT. OKAY.

SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, NO QUESTIONS. AS THESE APPLICATIONS COME IN, THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE SO FAR.

SO I'LL WORK WITH THE CITY MANAGER. I DIDN'T GET A FULL CONSENSUS, BUT I SAW HEAD NODS.

I MEAN, THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, REGULATION CHANGES.

[05:45:02]

YOU GUYS CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, BUT I JUST I FEEL OBLIGATED SO THAT AN ATTORNEY SITTING HERE TEN YEARS FROM NOW AND A COUNCIL IS NOT MAKING THE SAME CONCLUSIONS AND REFERENCING MY OPINION STILL, BUT RATHER CAN LOOK AT THE CODE AND MEAN WHAT IT MEANS.

SO I'M GOING TO WORK WITH THE, I THINK THOSE ARE SUGGESTIONS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN.

AND BUT NOTHING GETS APPROVED WITHOUT COUNCIL.

SO. CAN I PLEASE. JUST TO CLARIFY, BECAUSE WHAT MATTHEW WAS SAYING, AS FAR AS WHAT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT THEY DEMONSTRATED TO THEIR OWN BOARD MEMBERS ON THE UTILIZATION DOESN'T MEAN WE'VE SEEN THAT HERE YET PRESENTED TO YOU.

AND I JUST WANTED TO DELINEATE THAT FACT THAT HE WAS SPEAKING, THAT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT TO THE SPECIFICITY THAT'S BEEN ARTICULATED BY HIMSELF AND THE DAIS, BUT THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE YET.

I JUST WANTED TO LEVEL SET THAT BECAUSE THAT HASN'T OCCURRED YET, AND THAT ALL OF OUR DECISIONS WHEN WE MEET WILL BE PREDICATED ON THE LAST UTILIZATION PLAN, WHICH WAS IN 2021.

CORRECT? OKAY. THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO THANK YOU.

UNLESS THEY UPDATE, I SUGGEST THEY DO. BUT THEIR CALL.

CORRECT. THANK YOU. MATTHEW. SO.

AS IT GOES TO THAT CODE IS IS THERE NOT. DOESN'T IT.

CAN YOU JUST READ ON THE WHOLE PART OF OF B? MAYBE I HAVE AN OLD COPY OF. DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THE THE SUBPARAGRAPHS.

YES. IF YOU DON'T MIND. DO I NEED TO START FROM THE BEGINNING? LIKE THE BEGINNING SECTION YOU WANT ME TO READ? I ALWAYS LIKE TO HEAR THE WHOLE ENTIRE. SURE.

NO PROBLEM. OKAY. 58682 SUBPARAGRAPH B PROVIDED THAT AN OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR ALL AIRPORT PROPERTIES IS FIRST SUBMITTED TO THE CITY PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD FOR A RECOMMENDATION AND IS THEN APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL BASED ON A SUBMITTAL AND REVIEW PROCESS AS REQUIRED UNDER CHAPTER 46 FOR DEVELOPMENT AND SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR DEVELOPMENT OF SIGNIFICANT IMPACT, AND PROVIDED THAT ANY PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT FOR THE AIRPORT PROPERTY BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY OR ANY APPROVED SUBLEASE. NO BUILDING OR STRUCTURE OR PART THEREOF SHALL BE ERECTED OR ALTERED OR USED, OR LAND OR WATER USED IN WHOLE OR IN PART IN THE SEA.

FOR DISTRICT THAT IS NOT IN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPROVED OVERALL MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND FOR OTHER THAN THE FOLLOWING.

AIRPORT PASSENGER AND FREIGHT TERMINALS AND ACCESSORY USES AND STRUCTURES WHICH ARE INCIDENTAL TO AND CUSTOMARILY ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH FACILITIES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOCATIONS OF LANDING FIELDS, AIRCRAFT HANGARS AND REPAIR FACILITIES, ADMINISTRATION BUILDINGS, CONTROL TOWERS, FUEL STORAGE AREAS, NAVIGATION EQUIPMENT APPROACH AND CLEAR ZONES AND THE LIKE.

NUMBER TWO AIRCRAFT SALES AND SERVICE AND FLIGHT INSTRUCTION.

NUMBER THREE AIRPORT RELATED LIGHT INDUSTRIAL USES THAT ARE PRIMARILY DEPENDENT UPON THE AIRPORT FOR GOODS, SERVICES OR ECONOMIC SUPPORT. THE PRINCIPAL ACTIVITY OF SUCH USERS SHALL BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE AIRPORT AND NOT MERELY LOCATED ON AIRPORT PROPERTY, AS A CONVENIENCE FOR AIRPORT RELATED COMMERCIAL USES THAT ARE LOCATED WITHIN THE AIRLINE OR GENERAL AVIATION TERMINAL BUILDINGS OR IN THE VICINITY, AND THAT ARE PRIMARILY INTENDED TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF THE PUBLIC USING THE AIRPORT TRAVEL FACILITIES SUCH AS AUTO RENTALS, RESTAURANTS, COCKTAIL LOUNGES, NEWSSTANDS, GIFT SHOPS, INSURANCE OUTLETS AND THE LIKE.

NUMBER FIVE WITHIN THE AREA DESIGNATED FOR COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT.

ON THE AIR. ON THE APPROVED MASTER PLAN, THE FOLLOWING NON-AVIATION RELATED USES.

IT GOES ON TO LIST NINE I, WHICH I CAN. OKAY, I'M ALMOST THERE, I JUST.

OKAY. SUBPARAGRAPH, A SMALL SCALE RETAIL SALES ESTABLISHMENTS OTHER THAN SHOPPING CENTERS, RETAIL SALE ESTABLISHMENTS MAY INCLUDE INCIDENTAL PROCESSING, REPAIR AND RENTAL ACTIVITIES EXCEPT RENTAL OF MOTOR VEHICLES, WHICH REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PROVIDED THEY ARE ACCESSORY AND SUBORDINATE TO THE RETAIL SALES USE, AND PROVIDED THAT ALL SALES, DISPLAYS AND STORAGE, PROCESSING AND REPAIR OF MERCHANDISE OCCURS WITHIN THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING. B ART OR PHOTOGRAPHY STUDIOS. C CONVENIENCE SERVICE ESTABLISHMENTS SUCH AS TAILORING, GARMENT ALTERATION AND REPAIR, SHOE REPAIR AND THE LIKE. D CULTURAL FACILITIES, INCLUDING LIBRARIES OR MUSEUMS AND PUBLICLY OWNED BUILDINGS.

E FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, EXCLUDING DRIVE UP WINDOWS, WHICH ARE PERMITTED ONLY BY CONDITIONAL USE PETITION APPROVAL.

F MEDICAL OFFICES AND CLINICS G PROFESSIONAL, BUSINESS, PROFESSIONAL, BUSINESS, FINANCIAL,

[05:50:03]

YOU SAID LEASES IN THERE. THAT IS IN ITSELF, CORRECT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SORRY. SO WE HAVE A LEASE WITH THEM AND THEN THEY ENTER INTO SUB LEASES WITH THEIR TENANTS. SO THAT SUBLEASE WOULD BE WHAT I MEAN WHAT I THINK THAT MEANS.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THEY SHARE WITH US. I MEAN WHAT DOES THAT LANGUAGE MEAN? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE EVER SHARED A SUBLEASE.

NOT SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. BUT IT'S ONLY BEEN TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

SO I CAN LOOK TO SEE OR HAVE SOMEONE HELP ME RESEARCH TO SEE IF SUBLEASES HAVE EVER COME TO CITY COUNCIL.

YES. JUST TO MOVE THIS FORWARD. ALL WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO HERE IS GIVE YOU DIRECTION ON WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY WRITTEN, PERHAPS WITH THE EDIT OF REMOVING THE ERROR YOU FOUND, AND THEN ALL THE SUBTEXT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET CONSISTENT ON WHAT WHAT IT SAYS NOW.

IS THAT CORRECT? ACTUALLY, I DON'T NEED ANY DIRECTION.

OKAY. I JUST WANTED US ALL TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE.

WITH WHAT? THE PLAN. WITH WHAT THE PROCESS WAS, SO THAT THERE'S NO SHOCK FROM THE PUBLIC OR FROM COUNCIL.

IF WE SAY, YOU KNOW, IF WE MAKE A DETERMINATION AT THE STAFF LEVEL THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE UPDATED AND PEOPLE ARE UP IN ARMS. WILL YOU CHECK THE PART ABOUT AIRPORT LAYOUT PLAN? BUT I DID. ON A SIDE NOTE, SINCE WE TALKED ABOUT IT, I DO THINK, I MEAN, THE DIRECTION IS GOING TO BE YOU SAYING YES OR NO WHEN IT'S PRESENTED TO YOU, BUT I. OKAY. UNLESS THERE'S OBJECTION, I JUST FEEL OBLIGATED TO DO THAT.

RIGHT. AND YOU'LL MAKE YOU WOULD MAKE THE FIX THAT YOU. YES.

OKAY. YES. THAT'S. BUT THAT'S PROBABLY DOWN THE ROAD.

YES. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS. THANK YOU, MR. MCCONNELL. THANK YOU.

[5.G) Discussion of Meeting Topics for the Joint Meeting with the Collier County Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) on December 1, 2026.]

SO AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON NOW FOR A LITTLE BIT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH COLLIER COUNTY, HAVE A JOINT WORK SESSION SLATED, I BELIEVE IT'S DECEMBER 7TH.

I'LL DOUBLE CHECK THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

MAYBE IT'S DECEMBER 1ST, BUT I'LL I'LL GET THAT TO YOU MORE SPECIFICALLY.

BUT I DID HAVE A IN ANTICIPATION OF THAT, WHAT I PREPARED FOR YOU WAS A COUPLE ITEMS. ONE IS WE SENT EMAIL TO EVERYONE AND COUNCIL TO GO THROUGH THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS AND LET YOU KNOW WHICH ONES EXIST.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL OF THE BENEFITS THAT THAT WE WE GET OR THE THINGS THAT WE SHARE.

JOINT PROJECTS TOGETHER. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WE DON'T HAVE BEACH RENOURISHMENT LISTED HERE, BUT IT DOES OCCUR THROUGH TDC FUNDS. OBVIOUSLY, I HAD THE MEETING THIS MORNING ON THAT AND SO WE KNOW ABOUT THAT.

IN ADDITION YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE AGREEMENTS ON FIRST IN TERMS OF RECIPROCAL RESPONSE AND AID TO EACH OTHER.

BUT THERE'S ALSO WHENEVER WE HAVE A NEED, WE HAVE SPECIAL EVENTS, YOU KNOW, NEW YEAR'S EVE, DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE'S COORDINATED EVENTS WHERE RESOURCES ARE SHARED AND VICE VERSA.

SO THIS IS NOT TO BE ILLUSTRATIVE THAT THIS IS A FULL COMPREHENSIVE LISTING OF THOSE THINGS, BUT THOSE WHICH HAVE TRUE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS.

AND THE BENEFIT IS OBVIOUS. THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DEPICT FOR YOU HERE.

SO IN ADDITION, THE AGM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT I HAD INDICATED HERE IS WHAT IS IT THAT WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HAVE AS A PRIORITY FOR THIS DISCUSSION? AND I'M GOING TO KIND OF START IT OFF A LITTLE BIT, AS I INDICATED.

FIRST, JUST TO GO THROUGH THE LIST THAT I HAVE HERE AND THEN KIND OF GIVE IT SOME CONTEXT AS I AS ME AND AMY HAD DISCUSSED THE OTHER DAY.

SO FIRST I HAVE THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS AS I SHOWED YOU THE LIST, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT ANY ONE OF THOSE.

SHOULD THAT BE THE DESIRE? PUBLIC SAFETY, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT COORDINATION.

THAT'S OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT. INTERGOVERNMENTAL COORDINATION AND COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE CITY AND COUNTY.

AND WE HAVE A LOT OF SUBTEXT IN THIS. AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS ALLUDING TO A LITTLE BIT EARLIER TODAY.

YOU HAVE TRANSPORTATION. TRANSPORTATION, TRANSPORTATION IS ONE.

WE HAVE LIMITED FINITE NUMBER OF DOLLARS THAT THE GAS TAX GENERATES.

HOW IS THAT SPLIT DETERMINED? AS ROADS BECOME MORE PREVALENT IN THE COUNTY BECAUSE YOU PUT IN NEW COMMUNITIES THE PROPORTIONAL SHARE OF OUR ROADS TO THE OVERALL COUNTY

[05:55:01]

IS THERE A WAY WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION. IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO THAT THEY CAN THINK OF THAT HELPS US GENERATE ADDITIONAL TRANSPORTATION DOLLARS? IN ADDITION TO THAT, YOU HAVE YOU HAVE THE AGREEMENT AS IT PERTAINS TO IMPACT FEES.

AND IF YOU READ THAT AND YOU SAID, WELL, IT'S BEEN 200,000.

AND I GO BACK TO IF THERE'S A MECHANISM FOR US TO GET REVENUE FROM, FROM THE GAS TAX AS OPPOSED TO IMPACT FEES, IMPACT FEES IS ABOUT INCREASING CAPACITY OF YOUR ROADWAYS.

WE HAVE VERY LIMITED ABILITY TO IMPACT, INCREASE THE CAPACITY OF OUR ROADWAYS WITHIN OUR JURISDICTIONAL BOUNDARIES SO THAT OUR THAT BELONG TO US BECAUSE THE REST OF THE MAIN ONES BELONG EITHER TO THE COUNTY OR THE STATE.

SO WHEN YOU THINK OF IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, LET'S UNDERSTAND WHAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF YOU SAY, I JUST WANT TO INCREASE WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM. ALL REVENUE STREAMS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL AND THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STRINGS ATTACHED.

SO SO THAT'S A KEY COMPONENT. AND THEN THE OTHER PART AS FAR AS GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEVELOPMENT PLANNING, WE KNOW THOSE ARE CONSTANT ISSUES, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE COMMUNICATION AND ON THOSE FACTORS.

AND SO FOR ME, AND THEN THE ONE I MENTIONED THIS MORNING, ENVIRONMENTAL WATER AND RESILIENCY.

SO BECAUSE IT'S BEEN WHAT, THREE YEARS SINCE THE BODY'S MET.

AND THEN THERE WAS A WHOLE SMORGASBORD. I, FOR ONE, BELIEVE WE SHOULD PICK SOME VERY IMPORTANT TOPICS AND INCLUDE, ARE WE GOING TO SET AN AGENDA? LET'S HAVE TWO MEETINGS A YEAR OR ONE WHATEVER THIS COUNCIL AND THAT, AND THEY AGREE TO IS TO SAY, HOW FREQUENTLY SHOULD WE HAVE A SESSION? AND ON THE COMMUNICATION, WHEN I SAY INTERGOVERNMENTAL COORDINATION, COMMUNICATION, THAT'S ESTABLISHING THE CRITERIA UPON WHICH TO SAY, WE WANT TO HAVE WORKING PROJECTS, WE ALSO WANT TO HAVE LEADERSHIP MEETINGS.

IT'S REPORTING BACK TO US. SO IT'S MAKING MEANINGFUL DIALOG.

THAT WAS MY APPROACH WITH AMY. AND I THINK THAT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF ENVIRONMENTAL WATER AND RESILIENCY INITIATIVES, WE HAVE ENOUGH COMMON INTERESTS THAT THIS SHOULD BE AN ATTAINABLE GOAL, AND TO LEAVE THAT MEETING WITH A STRUCTURE FOR THAT, THAT'S A STEP FORWARD. AND IT'S NOT ABOUT ARE WE SITTING THERE? BICKERING OR NEGOTIATING AT THAT MOMENT, BUT SET THE FRAMEWORK FOR WHICH WE MOVE FORWARD POSITIVELY TOGETHER.

AND I THINK AND WE GO THROUGH THE INNER LOCALS IN A MOMENT, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE ARE THERE ARE INITIATIVES THAT WE'VE DONE.

THEY'VE DONE WELL BY US. AND WE'VE WE'VE BENEFITED FROM THAT AND VICE VERSA.

WE'RE FEELING PRESSURE FROM THEM AS BECAUSE OF THEIR GROWTH.

AND THEY KNOW THAT. SO HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE THOSE THINGS BETTER AND HOW DO WE GET BETTER AT IT? THAT'S WHAT THIS MEETING SHOULD BE. AND SETTING THE FRAMEWORK FOR THAT.

AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT IS THE TDC. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A LINE ITEM THAT TALKS ABOUT THE TDC BALLOT LANGUAGE IN THE SENSE IS WHAT DID IT DO, THE INCREASES THERE, WHAT DOES IT ENABLE TO HAPPEN AND HOW DOES THAT CAN THAT TRANSLATE INTO POSITIVE PROJECTS FOR US? I THINK THAT'S PART OF A DISCUSSION. RIGHT. AND THEN THE LAST THE NEXT ONE FOR NOT THE LAST ONE, BUT THE LAST ONE. IT SAYS 2027 $0.01 SALES TAX.

SO UNFORTUNATELY I WAS INFORMED THAT IT CAN'T BE 2027.

IT HAS TO BE A GENERAL ELECTION. SO IT'LL BE 2028.

I DO THINK IT SHOULD STILL BE AN AGENDA ITEM TO DISCUSS THE TYPES OF PROJECTS THAT WHAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THE HARDENING AND INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN PLACE.

SO THAT THAT IS AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US AND TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT SEEING THEIR COMMITMENT TO IT, AS WELL AS THE OTHER THE OTHER ONE. THE NEXT PAGE IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES, OPPORTUNITIES FOR JOINT ADVOCACY. WELL, THAT GOES BACK TO US HAVING A SEAT AT THE TABLE ON RESILIENCY, ON WATER, WATER QUALITY INITIATIVES. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE PROJECTS THAT ARE JOINTLY WORKED ON THAT.

WE CAN HAVE THAT. AND WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF TO HAVE LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES AND INITIATIVES.

WE SHOULD DO THAT. AND ONE IN PARTICULAR. AND IT'S BEEN SAID, AND I WOULD, I WOULD ARGUE, JUST ASK THE QUESTION. THERE'S ONLY TWO JURISDICTIONS STATE THAT HAVE BED TAX THAT WAS DONE BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND TOOK THEM AND SAID, HERE'S THE TWO MUNICIPALITIES THAT CAN HAVE IT.

AND MAYBE IT'S TIME THAT WE JOINTLY TALK ABOUT YOU BEING ABLE TO HAVE ONE WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION, GIVEN HOW MUCH OF IT IT IS IN TOURISM. NOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M ONLY SAYING FOR YOU FROM A, FROM A, FROM A LEADERSHIP PERSPECTIVE IS IF YOU DON'T START THE CONVERSATION HERE, NO LEGISLATOR IS JUST GOING TO TURN AROUND AND SAY, I WANT YOU TO HERE THROW IT ON FOR, FOR, FOR CITY OF NAPLES.

IT'S GOT TO START SOMEWHERE. AND THOSE ARE THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I THINK WE SHOULD BE HAVING AT THIS, THIS JOINT SESSION. AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND HOUSING RELATED ISSUES.

I'M NOT SAYING ALL OF THESE NEED TO BE THERE. I'M JUST GIVING YOU EXAMPLES. BUT AT THE TIME WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT STILLWATER, THERE WAS SOME MONEY THAT WAS AVAILABLE. THAT WAS FROM THE $0.01 SAID SALES TAX.

SO IS THERE ANY INITIATIVES THAT'S GOING ON THAT'S ON OUR BORDERS THAT WE CAN HELP AND VICE VERSA?

[06:00:05]

OBVIOUSLY, IT'S YOUR IT'S YOUR MEETING. BUT I DO THINK IF WE GO IN THERE RECOGNIZING WHERE WE HAVE SOME VERY POSITIVE FOOTING, RECOGNIZING THE BIG OBSTACLES WE HAVE COMING AT US, AND THEY ARE WHAT WE KNOW THEY ARE WATER, WATER QUALITY, RESILIENCY, TRANSPORTATION, TRANSPORTATION, AND OBVIOUSLY, GROWTH AND ITS IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.

SO I WILL SAY THIS, WHEN YOU GET INTO THE INTERLOCAL, WE CAN TALK ABOUT EVERY ONE OF THEM IF WE WANTED TO.

THE ONE GOOD THING, WHAT I WHEN I BROACHED THE SUBJECT TODAY THAT I HAD TOUCHED BASE ON THE PARKING ASPECT, I DID THAT IN SUCH A WAY AS THE REASON I DID THAT WAS BECAUSE WE HAVE AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WITH THEM NOW THAT PAYS THE MILLION AND A HALF GUARANTEES THEIR PARKING.

AND BECAUSE WE WERE STILL IN THE PIER CONSTRUCTION AND WE KNEW THAT WAS GOING ON, THERE'S A.

I'LL REMIND YOU THAT THIS AGREEMENT ENDS IN SEPTEMBER OF 2027, BUT THERE IS AN OPTION FOR A ONE YEAR RENEWAL.

BUT THEY WOULD INCREASE BY 5%. SO WHEN WE GO THROUGH INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS I WANT TO ALSO KIND OF IT'S BLUE IN THE SECTION THAT I GAVE YOU AND I GAVE YOU THREE YEARS OF HISTORY IN THAT I DID THAT FOR A REASON SO THAT YOU COULD SEE THAT THREE YEARS AGO, OR WE'LL GO BACK FIVE YEARS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN IN THE MEETING SINCE THEN.

IT USED TO BE AROUND 1,000,001, AND IT WENT TO 1,000,003.

THEN IT WENT TO 1,000,005. WE WERE STILL GETTING THE 200,000 FOR TDC FOR BEACH MAINTENANCE AND 200,000 FOR EXCUSE ME. THE PIER. AND NOW, WHEN THE LAST AGREEMENT WE WENT TO STATED 1,000,005.

BUT WE WENT UP TO 500,000 FOR OVERALL BEACH MAINTENANCE.

WENT TO FOUR. DOUBLED AND WENT TO 400,000 ON THE PIER.

AND WE RECEIVED A BRAND NEW AWARD FROM TDC UP TO 250,000 RELATED TO LOUDERMILK.

SO AGAIN, IT'S NOT ABOUT IS IT WINNING IN JUST THIS AREA, BUT ARE WE PICKING UP WINS AND FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS ALONG THE WAY? SO AGAIN, I KNOW I SAID A LOT, BUT I ALSO WANTED YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS OF, OF WHERE I ACTUALLY BROUGHT THE LETTER WITH ME BECAUSE I WANTED TO GO THROUGH THEM AND SAY, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO END UP, BUT I DO THINK THESE ARE FAIR POINTS TO SAY.

HERE'S OUR, YOU KNOW, HERE'S LET'S MAKE SURE THE FRAMEWORK'S THERE.

MAYBE GET THROUGH THE TOP TWO, THREE, FOUR, BUT THEN ALSO KNOW THAT LET'S HAVE THE FRAMEWORK.

SO SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, WE CAN FOLLOW UP AND GET ON TO THE OTHER ONE.

SO BECAUSE I THINK IF WE WALK IN WITH 14 THINGS AND THEN IT TURNS INTO JUST A BACK AND FORTH, WE WON'T HAVE MADE PROGRESS ON WHAT THIS IS REALLY TRYING TO TO ACCOMPLISH.

AND SO I HOPE THAT'S A FAIR WAY TO FRAME IT. BUT THAT WAS THE WAY THAT I FRAMED IT WITH HER.

SO. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, GARY, WITH WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND YOUR APPROACH.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IN THE SAME BREATH, I'M GOING TO SAY, LET'S NOT FORGET THE MOST IMPACTFUL INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT THAT WE'VE GOT, WHICH IS WHERE WE KEEP $0.14 ON EVERY TAX DOLLAR THAT WE COLLECT AND THE $0.86 THAT GOES ACROSS THE BORDER.

AND I REALIZE A LOT OF THAT'S GOING TO SCHOOL SYSTEM, BUT NONETHELESS, I HAVE A FEELING THAT THAT OFTEN GETS BRUSHED TO THE SIDE BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OTHER INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS. THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE THAT WE HAVE ON THE TABLE. AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR TAX DOLLARS GO TO TO THE COUNTY.

SO WE NEED TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THAT'S THAT'S SITTING THERE AND THAT'S TAKING PLACE.

VICE MAYOR. THANKS. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR WORK AND WORK WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER AND WORKING THROUGH THAT TO ME.

I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT COULD WE REASONABLY HOPE TO TRY TO ACCOMPLISH AT THIS MEETING, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY HOURS WE HAVE FOR IT.

AND A LOT OF IT WILL BE UPDATES AND EXCHANGES OF INFORMATION.

BUT TO ME, I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE CAME OUT OF IT WITH A COMMITMENT TO WORK TOGETHER ON THE WATER QUALITY INITIATIVES.

WITH THAT, WE WILL HAVE A JOINT COUNTY CITY TEAM THAT IS GOING TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC PROJECTS WE CAN WORK ON JOINTLY.

AND MAYBE WE'LL BRING IN BIG CYPRESS BASIN OR OTHER, YOU KNOW, GETTING MONEY FROM THE STATE OR WHATEVER TOO, BUT JUST TRYING TO IDENTIFY PROJECTS THAT HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON, ON IMPROVING OUR WATER QUALITY THAT REQUIRE US TO WORK TOGETHER.

THE SECOND WOULD BE HOW CAN WE GET EARLIER NOTICE OF POTENTIAL PROJECTS ON OUR BORDERS THAT WILL THAT WE WOULD YOU KNOW, THEIR APPROVAL PROCESS IS NOT IN OUR CITY LIMITS, BUT WE EXPECT THEM TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON US.

[06:05:03]

NOT JUST WHEN WE SEE IT IN THE NEWSPAPER, YOU KNOW, BUT THEN EVERYTHING'S BAKED AND IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE TO MAKE CHANGES.

AND THE THIRD ONE YOU MENTIONED IMPACT FEES AND GAS TAXES.

HOW DO WE GET A BIGGER SHARE, YOU KNOW, RELAYING TO THEM OUR PROBLEM AND REPAVING OUR STREETS AND REPAVING, REPLACING SOME OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S OUT OF DATE.

AND WHEN WE CAN'T PASS OUR OWN GAS TAX, WE CAN'T PASS OUR OWN IMPACT FEES.

WE'RE LIMITED TO WHAT THEY SHARE WITH US. TO HELP FUND THOSE.

AND I UNDERSTAND THEY'VE GOT A BUNCH OF ROADS THEY HAVE TO BUILD, BUT THEY SHOULD BE COLLECTING IMPACT FEES TOO, FROM THE DEVELOPERS ON THOSE BIG NEW COMMUNITIES.

BUT HOW CAN WE GET SOME ADDITIONAL MONEY TO HELP REPAVE OUR STREETS THAT WE KNOW NEED IT? WHICH AGAIN, GETS BACK TO IT, BENEFITS THE WHOLE ECONOMY, WHICH BENEFITS TOURISM, BENEFITS, SALES TAXES, BENEFITS, PROPERTY TAXES. SO IT'S NOT JUST FOR US, IT'S FOR THE COUNTY AT LARGE AS WELL.

THEY MAY NOT BE AWARE OF HOW FAR BEHIND WE THINK WE ARE IN REPAVING OUR STREETS.

AND WITH ALL THE REDEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY AND STORM RECOVERY ACTIVITY, THE BIG DUMP TRUCKS AND THINGS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH AND TORN UP OUR STREETS AND WE NEED HELP PAYING FOR THOSE. I'M SURE THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER STUFF WE CAN ACCOMPLISH, BUT THOSE ARE THREE THINGS THAT JUST CAME RIGHT TO MY MIND THAT IF WE COULD GET COMMITMENTS ON THOSE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD MEETING.

MR. YOUNG ON THE REIMBURSEMENT BACK TO THE CITY.

CAN YOU REFRESH MY MEMORY ON. WE DIDN'T REPAVE OUR STREETS, SO WHEN WE DIDN'T REPAVE OUR STREETS, WE. THERE'S TWO THINGS AT WORK THERE.

ONE IS, IS HOW MUCH YOU SPEND. THEY DO A FIVE YEAR LOOK BACK, BOTH IN HOW MUCH YOU SPEND AND PUT BACK INTO YOUR ROADS.

AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT IS YOU ALSO LOOK AT HOW MANY LANE MILES OF ROADS EXIST WITHIN THE COUNTY, AND THEN HOW MANY WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION AND THERE.

SO IT'S ALL PART OF THAT FIVE YEAR LOOK BACK.

AND FROM OUR STANDPOINT, WE HAD UP UNTIL THREE YEARS AGO, FOUR YEARS AGO, IT WAS THREE YEARS AGO, WE WERE SPENDING ROUGHLY $750,000 A YEAR ON PAVING.

AND ACTUALLY ONE YEAR THERE WAS THERE WAS NO PAVING DONE.

AND IT WAS CARRIED INTO THE NEXT YEAR. AND WE'VE BEEN REDIRECTING FOR THE LAST THREE FISCAL YEAR, 2027 WILL BE YEAR FOUR. AND WHERE WE INCREASE IT TO A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS A YEAR.

AND YOU'VE SEEN THAT PAVING NOW? WE DID. IS IT PAVING THE SAME LANE MILES AS 750,000? PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT MORE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BECAUSE PRICES WHAT IT DID OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, WE ALL KNOW ABOUT. SO IT DIDN'T GO AS FAR. BUT THE COMMITMENT WAS THERE BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY HAD THE TEN, YOU KNOW, NINE AND NINE, NINE AND A HALF, ETC.

IN TERMS OF CPI INCREASES. SO WE'VE, WE'VE FIXED THAT PART OF IT IN TERMS OF OUR CONTRIBUTION AND HOW MUCH PAVING WE'VE BEEN PRETTY AGGRESSIVE AT IT. AND I, AND I, IT'S JUST THAT THERE ARE, THERE'S ANOTHER FACTOR THAT STILL, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GROWING IN THE OUTSIDE JURISDICTION IS THEREFORE IT'S EVEN IF WE'RE PUTTING MORE IN, YOU'RE STILL FIVE YEARS FROM NOW DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO GO UP. YOU MAY NOT GO DOWN AS MUCH, BUT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO GO UP BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF LANE MILES OF ROADS BEING INSTALLED, SHARING WHAT IS AT LEAST FROM FROM WHAT AMY HAD INDICATED TO ME THAT THE GENERATED REVENUES FROM THE FUEL TAX HASN'T SIGNIFICANTLY MOVED. AT THIS JUNCTURE YET. AND SO THEREFORE YOU'RE STILL GETTING IT'S BASED ON MILEAGE OR MILES, EXCUSE ME, LANE MILES WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION.

AND IT GIVES YOU A SMALLER PORTION OF WHAT IS A NONELASTIC AMOUNT SO FAR ANYWAY.

AND UNDER NORMAL YEARS, THAT FORMULA MIGHT MAKE SOME SENSE.

BUT JUST GIVEN THE HEAVY REDEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY WE'VE HAD SINCE IAN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE INCURRING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DAMAGE TO OUR ROADS THAT ISN'T ACCOUNTED FOR BY THAT FORMULA. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT'S I MEAN, THAT'S A FAIR CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT LEGS IT'LL GET, BUT IT'S A FAIR COP. THAT'S WHY I THINK YEAH.

KEEPING IT FRONT AND CENTER AND TRANSPORTATION. BECAUSE IF NOT THAT, THEN WHAT? BECAUSE IS IS THERE A MECHANISM FOR US TO DO BETTER BECAUSE THE COSTS AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE? THAT PART WE ALL RECOGNIZE. WHERE DOES THAT FORMULA COME FROM? IT'S BEEN IN. YEAH. IT'S BEEN THERE'S A THERE'S A LEGAL REQUIRED FORMULA THAT GOES INTO.

I MEAN, I'LL BE HAPPY TO. AND, AND REMEMBER, IF YOU WANT ME TO, I CAN BRING THAT BACK.

BECAUSE THE REASON WE ARE HAVING THIS ONE THIS EARLY IS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM EACH MEETING.

[06:10:05]

YES. KRAMER. I JUST WANT TO ECHO WHAT THE VICE MAYOR SAID.

TOP PRIORITY FOR ME WOULD BE WATER CLARITY, WATER PURITY.

LIKE WE GOT TO GET THAT RIGHT. AND, AND THE THE CLOCK IS RUNNING.

YOU KNOW, DOCTOR IS TALKING ABOUT THE BUILD UP.

SO AND I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE REGARDING THAT.

DID THEY JUST EXPECT US TO TAKE WHATEVER'S DUMPED INTO THE BAY? HONESTLY, LIKE I'D LIKE TO KNOW. AND IF THEY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD THE CONVERSATION.

AND WHAT ARE THEIR EXPECTATIONS REGARDING INFRASTRUCTURE? OURS IS REALLY, REALLY OLD. AND AND ARE THEY AWARE THAT I THINK THEY SHOULD BE AWARE WE AREN'T GROWING.

THEY ARE. AND YET OUR VISITORS CONTINUE TO GROW AND THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW ONCE THE PIER OPENS.

THAT'S GOING TO GET RIDICULOUS. SO, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER ONE SOURCE OF STRESS IN HUMANS IS UNMET EXPECTATIONS.

SO IF THEY'RE EXPECTING THAT WE'RE GOING TO CARRY THE FREIGHT ON ALL THAT AND BE HAPPY ABOUT IT.

AND OUR EXPECTATIONS ARE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HELP US CARRY THE FREIGHT ON THAT.

THEN THERE'S SOME UNHAPPINESS. THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME DISCORD. SO I REALLY DO WANT TO KNOW, AND I DON'T MEAN THIS SARCASTICALLY AT ALL OR CYNICALLY.

I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE. LIKE WHAT WHAT THEIR POSITION IS ON THAT.

AND IF THEY IF THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'RE. OUR POPULATION IS DIMINISHING.

WE'RE I MEAN, WE'RE GEOGRAPHICALLY BOUND. WE HAVE SOME REDEVELOPMENT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT'S HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, ON OUR BORDERS.

AND THEN BECAUSE THAT LEADS INTO THE CONVERSATION OF LIKE THE VICE MAYOR SAID, WHEN WE FIND OUT ABOUT WHAT'S COMING TO US, HOPEFULLY WE FIND OUT EARLIER AGAIN, WHAT'S THE EXPECTATION THERE? YOU'RE JUST GOING TO KEEP WE JUST CARRY THAT FREIGHT, KEEP BUILDING AND WE JUST KEEP.

IF WE NEED TO KNOW IF THAT'S THE EXPECTATION.

AND THEN THEN IF IT IS, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT.

AS WE GET ASKED FROM OUR VOTERS, WE'D BE ABLE TO TELL THEM, YEAH, YOU CAN EVEN WATCH THE MEETING.

THEY SAID THIS IS WHAT THEY EXPECT FROM US. SO ANYWAY, I DON'T AGAIN, I DON'T SAY IT WITH HOSTILITY.

IT'S JUST A KIND OF A COMMON SENSE APPROACH. YEAH.

WELL, I WOULD ADD TO THAT TO, AGAIN, JUST A REGULAR CONVERSATION HERE, BUT KEEPING, MAKING SURE THAT ALL PARTIES ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT WHEN WE HAVE THESE LARGE DEVELOPMENTS HITTING OUR BORDER, OFTEN IT'S OUR WATER SERVICE, IT'S OUR EMERGENCY SERVICES, IT'S OUR WASTEWATER SERVICES THAT ARE THAT ARE ACTUALLY PROVIDING SERVICES TO THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT.

AGAIN, I JUST. NO HOSTILITY HERE. WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S AWARE OF THIS, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE, WE ARE NOT ONLY ARE WE, ARE WE HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE INCREASE IN, IN STRESS ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF PEOPLE VISITING, BUT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY ALSO SUPPLYING SERVICES TO THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE ON OUR BORDERS THAT ARE NOT WITHIN OUR BORDERS.

SO AGAIN, WE JUST JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT THERE'S A EVERYBODY IS, IS ON THE SAME PAGE AND EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT, THAT, THAT CREATES CONSTERNATION UP HERE.

BUT IT'S HELPFUL IF WE UP HERE COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF IT, AND THEREFORE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT SERVICES ARE BEING PROVIDED, THAT THAT RELIEVES SOME OF THE STRESS ON US BECAUSE WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, THEY THEY KNOW THAT WE'RE PROVIDING STUFF HERE. THAT'S THAT THAT'S HELPFUL. THERE ARE FURTHER STEPS TO, TO MAKE IT LESS STRESSFUL, BUT NONETHELESS, THAT THAT IS HELPFUL WHEN WE KNOW THAT THEY KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. IN OTHER WORDS, DO WE KNOW WHAT THEIR DEVELOPMENT FEES OR IMPACT FEES ARE WHEN, WHEN THEY'RE DEVELOPING AND HOW THEY'RE RECOVERING THE FEES? OR MAYBE I MEAN, THEY HAVE A PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD THAT DOES DETAIL WORK LIKE THAT.

WELL, YEAH, WE WOULD KNOW. I THINK THOUGH, WHAT I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ALSO ASKING MAYOR IS, IS BASED ON IN I THINK I'M INTERPRETING BURNS AS WELL.

BUT EVEN BASED ON OUR INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS, WHICH ARE LISTED, WE HAVE MUTUAL AID, WHICH INCREASES ON OUR BORDERS.

AND THE MOMENT YOU GO OUTSIDE YOUR BORDER, THE CHANCE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STAY OUTSIDE YOUR BORDER, BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE CLOSER TO SOMEBODY ELSE THAN AND JUST BASED ON SHEER CALL VOLUME.

SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.

WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF GROWTH ON YOUR BORDER WITHIN YOUR, YOUR, YOUR BOUNDARIES? AS IT PERTAINS TO YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE POLICE MUTUAL AID AS WELL.

AND THEN YOU TURN AROUND AND YOU HAVE WATER. SO WATER HAS IMPLICATIONS AND THE IMPACT FEES ON THERE.

SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION THAN THEIR OWN IMPACT FEES WITHIN THEIR COUNTY.

BUT I THINK THAT AND SO THOSE ARE THE WATER IMPACT FEES WHEN IT'S IT'S SHARED.

[06:15:01]

SO IF YOU WANT ME TO GET AND I'M TRYING TO GET TO YOUR QUESTION, MAYOR, DO YOU WANT ME TO GET ALL OF THEIR IMPACT FEES TO KNOW WHAT IT IS AND TO INCREASE THEIR CAPACITIES FOR ALL ISSUES, OR JUST THE ONE THAT'S THE COMMON ONE WHERE YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS BECAUSE FOR MUTUAL AID, IN OTHER WORDS, LIKE ONE OF THE QUESTIONS ME AND THE FIRE CHIEF HAS IS WHEN IT COMES THROUGH AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT'S THE NEAREST STATION? HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE SERVING THEM, SERVICING THEM MORE THAN US? AND AT WHAT POINT DOES IT MEAN WE SHOULD HAVE ONE OF YOUR FIRE STATIONS OR INCREASING OURS AT THAT, EVEN IF IT'S OUTSIDE OUR BORDER, ON THAT BORDER, AS OPPOSED TO BEING NORTH NAPLES? YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT? AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THAT, BUT IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUESTION TO HAVE.

AND SO WHEN THEY'RE ANALYZING, I THINK THAT'S FAIR AS FAR AS GETTING INTO THEIR INDIVIDUAL FEES AND WHAT THEY DO OR IMPACT FEES, WHAT THEY DO WITH THEM, I THINK JUST UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE THRESHOLDS TO WHICH YOU BELIEVE NOW YOU'RE DRAINING OR IT'S GOING TO COST US ADDITIONAL RESOURCES AS WELL.

AND MAYBE IT'S IN THEIR PLAYBOOK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ANALYZE.

AND THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION TO ASK THAT. YEAH.

AND MR. MCCONNELL, WASN'T THERE A LEGISLATION YEARS AGO THAT TOOK AWAY THE ABILITY FOR CITIES.

OR MAYBE YOU KNOW THIS MR. YOUNG, TO TAKE TO TO CHARGE IMPACT FEES, BUT THE COUNTY COULD.

NO, NO. WHAT WAS THAT GROWTH MANAGEMENT BILL? NO, IT WAS WE'RE IN 2020. IT WAS LAST YEAR. YEAH.

I THINK THERE WAS CHANGES THAT LIMITED HOW MUCH YOU CAN INCREASE AT ONE TIME.

CORRECT YOUR IMPACT FEES. BUT YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY CHARGE IMPACT FEES.

I MEAN THAT'S MOST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS BIGGEST SOURCE OF INCOME OR REVENUE IS IMPACT FEES.

AND IT GOES TO CONCURRENCY, RIGHT. LIKE YOUR CITIZENS SHOULD NOT PAY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT COMING.

DEVELOPMENT SHOULD PAY FOR ITSELF. SO IF IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON YOUR ROADS OR YOUR FIRE OR YOUR POLICE OR YOUR I MEAN, TO MR. YOUNG'S POINT, THEN THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE IMPACT FEES.

OKAY. THANK YOU. AND JUST TO RECAP, WE HAVE OUR OWN WITHIN OUR WATER AND SEWER DISTRICT.

OKAY. SO WE HAVE OUR OWN FOR EVEN OUR OWN GROWTH.

BUT IT ALSO APPLIES TO WITHIN OUR SERVICE AREA.

AND THEN WE HAVE WITHIN OUR CORPORATE BOUNDARIES, WE HAVE PARKS AND RECREATION IMPACT.

WE HAVE POLICE AND WE HAVE FIRE. AND THEN THE STREETS IS THE ONE YOU CAN'T BOTH IMPOSE.

AND STREETS IS THE ONE THAT'S BY AGREEMENT. IF IT'S IN IF IT'S A THE TRANSPORTATION IS APPLIED BY THE COUNTY.

WE RETAIN THE FIRST 200,000. THE REMAINING GOES TO THE COUNTY, BUT WE BOTH CAN EMPLOY THE STREETS.

ONE IS MY UNDERSTANDING ON THE STREETS, AND MR. MCCONNELL IS 100% RIGHT. WHAT IT DOES IS IT EXTREMELY LIMITED THE FREQUENCY AND THE PERCENTAGE YOU CAN INCREASE AT ANY ONE GIVEN GIVEN TIME SO THAT IT CAN'T BE JUST LET IT GO AND THEN TURN AROUND AND INCREASE IT.

AND SOMEBODY BECAUSE YOU FAILED TO INCREASE IT TIMELY.

WHOEVER'S DEVELOPING THIS YEAR ENDS UP PAYING 40% MORE.

IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE TYPE OF A DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.

KRAMER. AND THEN SCHULTZ. WELL, I JUST ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I MEAN, POST HURRICANE, THE COMMISSIONERS VOTED ROLLBACK RATES TOOK THEM BACK AS FAR AS THEY COULD, AND THEY DID A MILLAGE NEUTRAL RATE YEAR BEFORE THIS ONE LAST YEAR, WHATEVER THAT MEANS. IT INCREASED 55.06, I THINK IT WAS.

BUT AND THEN THIS YEAR WAS AGAIN ROLLBACK RATE.

IN THE MEANTIME WE'RE RAISING MILLAGE RATES. THEIR POPULATION IS EXPANDING.

OURS HASN'T GONE UP BECAUSE WE'RE WE'RE PROVIDING SERVICES FOR OUR CITIZENS AND EVERYBODY WHO COMES TO USE US AS AN AMENITY.

AND I JUST WE HAVE I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. IT'S POLITICALLY. IT'S EASY. I HAVEN'T RAISED TAXES.

WELL, GOOD FOR YOU. YOU JUST FORCED OTHERS TO.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY AGAIN, I DON'T SAY IT IN A HOSTILE MANNER.

I'M JUST SAYING IT'S THE REALITY OF IT. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY RECOGNIZE THAT.

I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THEY NOT ONE PERSON UP HERE WANTS TO RAISE MILLAGE RATE.

NONE OF US. I HATE TAXES, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HEALTH AND SAFETY, WHICH WAS OUR PRIORITY AND THAT'S AND YOU LOOK AT WHAT WHATEVER IT IS, 88% OF OUR TAXES GO TOWARDS HEALTH, SAFETY, QUALITY OF LIFE.

MAYBE IT'S 90 SOME PERCENT. THEN I THINK THAT'S A FAIR CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

ON THAT MILLAGE RATE. THEY TOOK IT OUT OF THE CONSERVATION FUND.

SO THEY LOWERED MILLAGE RATE ON THAT TO BALANCE THAT.

SO REALLY THEY RAISED THEIR MILLAGE RATE, YOU KNOW, BUT THEY DID IT IN A CREATIVE WAY. THEY BORROWED IT AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PAY IT BACK.

HOW ABOUT THAT ONE? WE SORT OF HAVE A TEMPLATE MR. YOUNG WITH THE CLAM BAY EFFORTS WHERE THERE WAS A LOT OF LACK OF CURIOSITY FROM THE CITY TO OUR PROBLEMS UP THERE FOR A WHILE.

WE ADDRESSED IT. WE HAD TO GO THROUGH COMMISSIONER COLWELL AND A COUPLE OTHER COMMISSIONERS TO GET THE CITY A SEAT AT THAT TABLE.

[06:20:08]

SO IT'S SORT OF A VERY SMALL MICROCOSM OF WHAT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE ON A MUCH BIGGER CITY WIDE LEVEL OF A TEMPLATE OF HOW WE CAN COOPERATE AND WORK WITH EVERYBODY. IF, BECAUSE THE PELICAN BAY SERVICES DISTRICT IS WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARY OF THE COUNTY, AND IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT. SO WITH THEM, WITH THE CONSERVANCY WITH WHAT WE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD UP THERE WITH PATRICK WHACK MYSELF FOR, FOR NAPLES K AND THEN THE CONSERVANCY FOLKS, EVERYBODY'S ARE ON THE TABLE.

AND IT'S REALLY, IT'S MORE PRODUCTIVE AND IT'S ALL THE PLAYERS.

AND SO IF WE CAN BUILD ON THAT AS A, AS A SMALL TEMPLATE AND DEMONSTRATE AND SHOW THEM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE WE CAN WORK IN GOOD FAITH WITH EVERYBODY BECAUSE THE WATER QUALITY CLAM BAY IS, IS CRUCIAL. AND IT HAD SOME IMPACT WHEN I, I CHANGED THE ARGUMENT ON THE WATER PARK SIMPLY BY PUTTING.

IF THERE'S A WEATHER EVENT AND ALL THAT TREATED WATER WITH CHEMICALS.

AND WHAT DO YOU PUT IN POOLS? IF THAT GETS INTO CLAM BAY, KISS IT GOODBYE.

BECAUSE CLAM BAY IS VERY FRAGILE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, IF THAT WATER WERE TO ESCAPE IN A IN A HURRICANE OR A STORM.

STORM SURGE. CLAM BAY IS GONE. AND I THINK I GOT THEIR ATTENTION WITH THAT.

AND IT WAS NOT EMOTIONAL. IT WASN'T NOISE, NOISE AND, YOU KNOW, STOP DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S JUST THIS IS A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON THE SAME PROBLEM.

SO I THINK THE INROADS CAN BE MADE THERE. AND ALONG THIS VEIN, IT'S A SMALL ASIDE, BUT TO REACH OUT WITH OUR NEWLY ELECTED AFTER THE ELECTION, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A NEW STATE SENATOR AND WE NEED TO GET OFF ON A GOOD FOOT INVITE.

THEN SENATOR MELLOW IN HERE AS SOON AS PRACTICAL TO VISIT WITH THE MAYOR, WITH MR. YOUNG, AND START EARLY AND CULTIVATE A RELATIONSHIP THAT'S POSITIVE.

SO I AGAIN, I TRY TO BUILD ON POSITIVES IF THERE ARE ANY.

AND I THINK THERE'S SOME SMALL BABY STEPS WE CAN TAKE TO WORK WITH THESE WITH, WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY AND IN TALLAHASSEE, BECAUSE TALLAHASSEE IS WHERE THE BIG BUCKET OF MONEY IS.

SO THE MORE ALLIANCES WE CAN MAKE THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL, I THINK WE ALL BENEFIT FROM IT.

SO I JUST WANTED TO HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE IN HEY, THIS WORKED HERE.

AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I THINK THAT MAY ADD GRIST TO THE MILL.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF OUTLINING.

WHAT CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION. SO FROM A TOPIC PERSPECTIVE, JUST TO LEVEL SET IT'LL BE PROPERTY TAXES.

AND HOW CAN, HOW CAN WE AND HOW DO THEY JUDGE IN.

IN OTHER WORDS, TO GET MORE DOLLARS RETURNED TO THE, TO THIS COMMUNITY.

AND THE REASON I SAY THAT I DON'T WANT IT TO MUDDY UP INTERLOCAL INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENTS OR INTER-LOCAL AGREEMENTS BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN AGREEMENT.

IT IS. YOU RECOGNIZE IT BASED ON OUR PROPERTY OWNERS AND THEIR MILLAGE RATE.

SO MUCH GOES TO THE COUNTY. AND YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW CAN YOU GET A A BIGGER SHARE RETURNING HOME? AND WHERE'S THE TANGIBLE RETURN? I GET WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT.

I JUST DON'T WANT THAT MONEY UP. TRUE AGREEMENTS BECAUSE IT ISN'T AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.

IT'S JUST HOW MUCH CAN SOME OF THE MORE. YOUR QUESTION IS BASED ON YOUR YOUR PROPORTIONAL SPLIT OF YOUR GENERAL TAX AND MILLAGE.

HOW MUCH IS THERE A WAY TO GET MORE COMING BACK TO NAPLES WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM, OR WHERE OUR PORTION, AT LEAST OF OUR PORTION BACK TO US? AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW IT'S NOT GOING TO BE IN AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT PART, BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN AGREEMENT IN AND OF ITSELF.

IT IS YOUR TAX DOLLARS COMING BACK TO YOU. AND I JUST WANTED TO PREFACE THAT.

SO WHEN I LIST A TOPIC, WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THAT.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER ONE THAT I DID, I'M JUST GOING TO MENTION, BECAUSE THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS ANOTHER DOLLAR AMOUNT IN IT. I THINK WE WERE 90% ON BOARD.

I'M NOT SURE IT'LL BE PART OF THAT DISCUSSION, BUT THERE IS THE ONE IN THERE THAT'S SIX. THERE WAS $37,000 BEEN THAT WAY SINCE FOR 20 SOME YEARS. AS FOR WHERE IN OUR, OUR JURISDICTION WHERE WE BILL FOR THEIR SANITARY SEWER WITHIN OUR WATER DISTRICT, IT'S BEEN THE SAME 32,000. AND WE'RE GOING TO, I THINK WE KIND OF TENTATIVELY AGREED SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF 65 OR DOUBLING IT BASED ON COST OF LIVING. SO I HOPE TO HAVE THAT ONE NEGOTIATED AND NOT BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

BUT I DID WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. SO WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OTHER TRANSPORTATION AREAS AND, AND SOME CONCERNS WHERE IT ON OUR BORDERS, WHERE THERE'S SOME ROADS THAT ARE, THAT ARE AS, AS TRAFFIC CONTINUES THAT WE'VE GOT SOME SPOTS WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC CONSUMPTION, SEAGATE BEING ONE OF THEM. SO WE TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS. WE'LL KEEP WORKING THOSE. BUT, BUT I DID WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I BROACHED THOSE SUBJECTS IN A

[06:25:04]

AND CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING, PLEASE? WELL TWO THINGS.

I AGREE. VERY WELL DONE BY MR. YOUNG. HONESTLY, THIS IS GOING TO BE A GREAT MEETING.

JUST TO CAUTION YOU GUYS BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO TALK ONE MORE TIME ABOUT IT. I'M ASSUMING. BUT KNOWING AMY, IF YOU SAY WE WANT MORE IN IMPACT FEES ON ON THE ROAD, THE FIRST THING SHE'S GOING TO SAY IS GREAT.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO USE IT FOR? BECAUSE IMPACT FEES HAVE TO BE USED FOR VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSES.

SO BEFORE WE ASK FOR MORE, WE SHOULD DETERMINE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY USE IT FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT WISE PURSUANT TO STATUTE.

AND I JUST WANT TO LEAVE YOU GUYS WITH THAT THOUGHT, BECAUSE MY FIRST MEETING WITH HER, I THINK SHE WAS OPEN TO IT.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO EARMARK IT FOR SOMETHING PURSUANT TO STATUTE.

THAT'S WHY IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO GET MORE GAS TAX.

AND THEN IT CAN BE REPAVING AS OPPOSED TO IMPACT FEES ON EXPANSION.

WELL, WE'VE BEEN ROBBING FROM THE TELECOM FOR ROADS FOR YEARS.

YEAH. AND THEY'LL EVEN TELL YOU THAT THEY DON'T.

CERTAIN THINGS THAT WE GET ARE BENEFIT. THEY DON'T EVEN GET THE BENEFIT OF.

SO KEEP THAT IN MIND. AND I EXPECT THAT TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION A LITTLE.

BIT IS WHEN WE SAY WE'VE REDIRECTED ALL OF OUR MONEY THAT WE USED TO GET AND PUT SOME IN THE GENERAL FUND.

IN SOME REGARDS, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT'S WE DON'T EVEN GET THOSE REVENUES. THOSE BELONG TO YOU. SO JUST THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS SAY WE KNOW WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW.

AND THEN THERE'S A REALITY OF WHAT WE DON'T KNOW.

RIGHT. AND SO THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

AND, AND IT'S NOT A ZERO SUM GAME. WE WANT TO LEAVE HERE THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE GOT A COUPLE FIRST DOWNS WHILE WE WERE THERE SO THAT WE'RE MARCHING TOWARDS THE SAME END ZONE. THAT'S REALLY WHERE I FEEL ABOUT IT.

YEAH, I AGREE WITH FORWARD PROGRESS. YEAH. WE NEED TO GO FORWARD WITH IT AND NOT LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS, IS ALIENATE THOSE GUYS. YEAH. WHICH IS EASY TO DO, BUT TO HAVE REAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT REAL ISSUES, REAL PROBLEMS, AND TRYING TO FIND REAL SOLUTIONS.

SO. YEP. THANK YOU. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. WELL.

PUBLIC COMMENT. NO PUBLIC COMMENT. THAT TAKES US TO COMMUNICATIONS.

[7) COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL, AND STAFF]

I THE I SERVE ON THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA REGIONAL PLANNING, AND WE HAD A PRESENTATION BY A WOMAN FROM SIDRAN, THE SIDRAN GROUP CDRON GROUP AS IT PERTAINS TO WASTE TO ENERGY.

AND THEY HAVE PROJECTS ALREADY UP AND RUNNING IN TEXAS, OREGON, LOUISIANA.

AND THE FIRST ONE IS GOING TO BE COMING TO FLORIDA IN A PLACE CALLED INDIANTOWN ALONG THE EAST COAST.

AND IT'S ABOUT $300 MILLION IN STRUCTURE. BUT WHAT WHAT PROMPTED MY INTEREST IN THAT WAS WE HAD JUST HAD THE PROBLEM WITH THE, THE BREAK THE THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEM WHERE WE HAD 330,000 GALLONS OF.

WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT. BUT THESE GROUPS TAKE THE BIOSOLIDS CONVERSIONS, GETTING HEAVY METALS OUT EASIER PERMITTING AND THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE YOU CONVERT FUEL INTO THINGS.

AND SO I SENT THAT TO DOCTOR GEORGE. THERE WAS REALLY SOLID POWERPOINT PRESENTATION AND HE'S VERY INTERESTED IN IT.

AND SO I THINK IF WE CAN DO THAT, THAT CAN CUT COSTS AND WE HAVE A VERY AGING INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND SO THAT COULD RELEASE, RELIEVE SOME OF THE STRESS ON THAT.

IT'S $150 PER TON CURRENTLY FOR DISPOSAL. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE THE WEIGHT, GROSS WEIGHT MR. YOUNG IS, BUT THAT I'D LIKE TO PURSUE WITH DOCTOR GEORGE THROUGH, THROUGH THAT VENUE FOR NOW UNTIL WE CAN GET THEM HERE AT SOME POINT TO GAUGE OUR INTEREST. DO WE WANT TO PARTICIPATE WITH THAT? AND THEY PELLETIZE THESE THINGS AND IT'S BURNED LIKE COAL.

SO IT REALLY, REALLY SLICK. AND I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THAT WITH EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER CROWELL.

WAS THAT AN EVENT AT NORRIS CENTER? THIS PAST WEEKEND OR FRIDAY NIGHT ACTUALLY.

AND DID A REALLY GOOD JOB. IT'S A REALLY GOOD SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE AN ENTITY LIKE THAT IN THE CITY WHERE SOMEONE CAN HOST AN AFFORDABLE EVENT AND ALL THAT.

SO I JUST WANT TO YELL OUT THAT THE STAFF WAS VERY KIND AND WENT REALLY WELL.

AND THE OTHER THING I'D SAY, I'M HAPPY TO SEE A WATER QUALITY FOCUS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY.

YOU KNOW WHAT? COUNCIL MEMBER SCHULTZ WAS WORRIED ABOUT CHLORINE GETTING INTO. WELL, WE ALREADY HAVE STUFF COMING INTO OURS, SO WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BE THE RETENTION BASIN FOR, FOR THE COUNTY'S POLLUTION.

[06:30:04]

SO I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR CITY MANAGER, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR ALL HIS EFFORTS ON THIS AND PUTTING THIS MEETING TOGETHER.

I THINK THANK YOU GARY. WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU SEE AT THE NORRIS CENTER FILM FESTIVAL? OH, GREAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. I JUST WANT TO COMMEND STAFF. THERE WAS A LOT THAT WENT INTO TODAY'S WORKSHOP.

AND BESIDE ALL THE STUFF BESIDES ALL THE STUFF THEY HAVE TO DO IN THEIR DAY TO DAY.

AND SO THANK YOU, STAFF, FOR BEING SUPER PREPARED AND, AND EXPERTS I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, LIKE, WE'RE JUST GRATEFUL FOR YOU. AND THEN, AND FRIDAY NIGHT BARRON COLLIER AT NAPLES HIGH SCHOOL.

IT WILL BE THE 28TH CONSECUTIVE YEAR THAT NAPLES HIGH SCHOOL BEATS BARRON COLLIER IN FOOTBALL.

AND I THOUGHT WE SHOULD IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO, SHOW UP.

I THINK IT'S ALSO HOMECOMING FOR NAPLES, WHICH IS APPROPRIATE.

I THINK IT IS. IT MAY NOT BE. I DON'T REGARDLESS, 28 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

THAT'S AMAZING. AMAZING. I'M EMBARRASSED TO SAY I HAVEN'T USED MY SEASON TICKETS YET THIS YEAR, SO I SHOULD PROBABLY GO AHEAD AND DO THAT NOW.

WELL, NOW THAT SUMMER IS GONE AND WE ACTUALLY HAD A BREAK IN THE WEATHER, I FEEL LIKE GOING TO A FOOTBALL GAME AS OPPOSED TO MELTING IN THE STANDS. IS THERE A WAY, MR. ATTORNEY, FOR US TO PENALIZE HIM FOR THAT? SO YES, THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP. I THINK I'LL MAKE A POINT OF GETTING THERE.

FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS. THAT'S RIGHT. VICE MAYOR.

JUST THE WHOLE WATER QUALITY DISCUSSION WAS VERY HELPFUL, VERY USEFUL.

I APPRECIATE THE DATA AND THAT DOCTOR GEORGE AND TEAM ARE ON TOP OF IT AND HOPEFULLY MAKING PROGRESS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT THEY COME UP WITH THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. THANK YOU. MR. MCCONNELL.

ANYTHING? NO. THANK YOU. MAYOR. MR. YOUNG. NOTHING FROM ME OR MAYOR? WELL, I'LL JUST ECHO WHAT WAS STATED. I REALLY AM AMAZED BY THE AMOUNT OF TASKS YOU CAN TAKE ON MR. YOUNG AND DELEGATE AND WORK WITH YOUR STAFF AND COME UP WITH TACKLING OUR PRIORITIES AND, AND THE, ALL THE EXTERNAL THINGS THAT YOU HANDLE. SO THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT AND I APPRECIATE COUNCIL AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. WE'RE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.